Finding my Atom edgy? Any hints?

[BMacD]

I have a Dagger Atom that I am finding edgy. Thigh straps and saddle are all original equipment with no mods. Is it me, or should I modify?

Thanks!:-?

[the great gonzo]

How much do you weigh?
I was about 185lbs when I had an Atom and it was ok for me, but I know people who are above that, around 200 lbs or more, do find it edgy, as the likelyhood of catching a stren edge increases dramatically.
As for outfitting, how tight are you in there? if you are loose, add foam, mainly arond the knee area, to keep them locked in position. That's what I did to mine and it definitely increased the control I had over my boat.

martin

[BMacD]

About 195 (dry)!

Did you modify the saddle at all? I was thinking of lowering it.

I do have trouble staying tight, so was wondering if the thigh straps should be relocated.

I'll will add some foam by the knees.

Thanks

Bruce

[the great gonzo]

I did not lower my saddle, due to comfort reasons, I just added foam in the knee area, but I think lowering it a bit would definitely help stablity a bit.
The thighstraps always held me in well, but I have long and skinny legs, which seems to help. I have seen a few Atoms that were converted from the single thighstrap to a Mike Yee double strap system (see link to Mike Yee's website on the cboats homepage) and must admit that it definitely holds you in much tighter than the original outfitting, since the lower strap plants your knee very solidly and keeps it from lifting while the upper strap holds your butt very tightly on the saddle.

At 195 lbs you are probably right at the upper end of the weight range for the Atom, so even after all those modifications you may still find it too edgy.

martin

[jKelly-Rand]

I too have discovered that the straps loosen up as I paddle, even after retightening to compensate knee compression. I don't know if this is an escape feature that Dagger designed in or my constant sliding of the webbing in and out at the center fitting. I have never used the velcro to adjust the fit. I bailed twice on the Dryway last weekend. Both in the most turbulent rapids where I felt like I was being sucked out of the boat. I don't know if just being tight would have made a difference, turbulent rapids ussaully require perfect technique to roll. I was hanging by my heels on the North Branch when I rolled his Viper.

till next
Jim

[jKelly-Rand]

Paul Clines Viper I mean.

[sbroam]

If your Atom is feeling edgy may I suggest that you spend a few hours in an Acrobat or a low volume slalom boat - all of a sudden your Atom will feel soooo much more stable without any modifications at all!

I outweigh you by a few pounds and used to paddle a Slasher a lot - everyone told me how edgy it was, they even called it names like "Trasher"! When I tried an Atom, I was expecting it to be more stable and really didn't find it to be so, maybe even less so. I think being over the design weight sinks the edges deeper, accentuating the affect. My Slasher's stern is lower volume (by modification) and I think that in some odd way, it makes it more stable. Kneal's Atom is squashed and I wish I could remember if it felt more or less stable...

[Don Williams]

A lot of people move the top anchor for their thighstraps back 1-3 inches to stay in better. The knee blocks others have mentioned make a big difference, I like my knees as far apart as possible.

Toe blocks (rectangles of minicell glued in) help me stay in the straps when I tuck tightly.

Like jKelly-Rand I have noticed the tendency for the stock Dagger straps to loosen over time. My velcro also never gets adjusted, the hip huggers keep it from working. The straps seem to slip through the central "friction lock" when they get wet, highly stressed, or just over time.

Thermarest used to make cans of Slip-Fix for their pads that worked very well to prevent this when sprayed on the straps, they don't make it any more and I'm out. I've tried using some of the "grippy" sprays for bats and rackets, it tends to be too sticky.

For my creek boat I use camlock buckles with 2" heavyweight polypro webbing, for me it seems to work better than the seat belt straps a lot of people use.

[Alden]

the dagger system didnt work so well for me either at first. the key for me was moving the inside anchors back. these are the ones on the inside of the boat, near your crotch. move those back somehow, and that was what worked for me.
Alden

[Larry Horne]

alden is right about moving the crotch anchors back a little if you feel loose- an inch or so should help. there should even be another set of access holes in your console to make this easy.

i weigh about 180? and i found the atom to be stable, but "grabby". seemed to flip me in eddies (A LOT) . funky. seemed good as long as i was moving forward.
just don't slow down at the top of rapids, and don't eddie out in BIG water

[(KNeal)]

You're right about the Atom feeling edgy. The stern is lower volume, fairly straight, and has somewhat sharp chines. These features are also what helps with the boat's performance when running a rapid, getting into and out of an eddy, surfing, playing, etc. SBroam made the distinction of how different boats feel edgy. Once you paddle a slalom boat with a sharp stern or the Acrobat (especially the master cut), then the Atom won't feel so tippy to you. Weight is also an important issue, and you just may be at the other end of the weight range for the boat (based on listening other fellow Richmond c-boaters' comments).

Definitely work the outfitting to get a better fit. I got one of the originals (pre-hip grabber), so I had quite a bit of room to flop around in. I added thigh spreaders, knee blocks, and plastic hip grabbers (with foam pads), and did not change the location of the thigh straps. The boat has been very nice to paddle (at least for me), so your performance in the boat will be based on snug outfitting and how well you can get the boat's edgy features to work FOR you instead of against you (causing you to provide entertainment to the other boaters).

I've finally got my Viper outfitted the way I want it and am looking forward to paddling that real soon (today?). Talk about an edgy boat, but it was designed that way on purpose.

KNeal

[Guest]

I have been paddling an Atom for several years, following the progression from big old OC, then 14' Mohawk Scamp to Gyramax, then Cascade. I have not experienced the Atom as edgy, nor have I noticed water piling up on the stern ( a complaint that I have heard from others). I did make some of the adjustments that other folks have made- moved the location of the thigh anchors back on the saddle, padded the knees out, etc.- this has helped tremendously, although I find that things do loosen up and I have to adjust while out on the river.

I do find the Atom to be a great all around boat- great surfing, fast down river(relatively), but each year I notice that it gets heavier- perhaps it is slowly absorbing water ang picking up extra weight! I hope to add a Viper to my fleet- anyone have one they want to get rid of?

Brendan

[Jim]

I am glad that you raised the issue that "each year I notice that it (the Atom) gets heavier". That is a phenomenon that requires some investigation.

My observation is that this is a dramatic effect. My old Royalex OCs used to be a pretty easy carry. Now they have grown in weight so much that it just isn’t worth taking them out of the garage. The same is happening with my plastic C-1s, they are getting heavier by the year.

What really compounds the problems is that I have noticed that some of the rivers are getting longer. Not all of them- rivers like the Dryway section of the Deerfield have stayed the same (I think it has to do with the low water at night allowing the river bed to dry out), but some of the longer runs have added about 10%, or more, to their length. Now normally I would be happy with a longer river, but these things are adding up each year.

And finally, some of the dam rivers just keep getting more difficult. For example, that Alden fellow has mentioned several rivers that he used to be able to run upstream, doing attainments. But I have seen him on those rivers, and I haven’t seen him making many attainments. I guess the rivers are just getting too tough for him.

Yep, it sure is a shame the way the boats are getting heavier and the rivers are getting tougher. I am just glad I am in such good shape, so that I can keep up with these changes.

Jim

[guest]

I attribute it all to global warming! Maybe we can get Michael Moore to do a story on this- I am sure that he will be able to get to the truth of the matter. I have also noticed that the takeouts seem a bit more steep and longer. Perhaps there is a Federal Grant available for me to study this phenomenom.

Brendan

[Ken D]

I paddled an Atom on a vacation a couple of years ago and did not find it very edgy. I usually paddle a Slasher or a Super D so maybe I'm just used to having sharp edges. I weigh around 140 so I'm quite a ways from the upper limit and maybe that is also a factor.

As others have said modifying the thigh trap settup will help you be more one with the boat, but to me that will make it feel even more edgy since the tighter you are the more you feel the slightest quiver in the boat.

When my wife switched from a Gyramax to a Slasher she found it very edgy and just had to get used to it.

Also you did not mention what type of boat you paddled prior to the Atom. If it was an OC1 or a soft chined boat, it could just be that you are not used to hard chines.

The best solution is to get out and paddle, paddle, paddle and you'll learn to love those edges.