CForum Support - subscription?

[adamin]

We've always kept things cheap here, from the ads to not really bothering folks to support the site to using free hosting software that the super-skilled Kenneth mods for our use.

I have noticed though that there is interest in more forum features (at least we finally have image hosting! Thankfully we have enough revenue from ads to support that now).

As I check out other (typically non-boating) forums I notice many have different "member levels". All can post, "members" can attach images, etc.... Cost seems to be from $10-$60 a year depending on site and type (with higher levels for folks who want to give more and have a different rank).

We did try something similar years ago using the CBoats store and special "sponsor" type gear. There are are a few folks who supported us (and most still have their sponsor tags;) ).

So, do you as the community like the idea of an additional level of paid membership, or keep it free and simple for all?

Not saying we will, or won't, but just trying to gauge what direction you are all comfortable with (next would be what are we capable of time and technology wise!)

[jakke]

I personally prefer a decent, basic feature set without costs (well, without costs for the "members", hosting, domain name ao do cost money of course).

This because for paying memberships, it's often hard to estimate if it's worth the money before you paid. I wouldn't mind paying like 10$ a year to support the site, but that because I'm enjoying it for several years now. It will be a barrier for many new users. And since canoeing is already such a high-barrier sport, I think it's wise to keep the access to the community and the information as low as possible.
Second thought for a paying service, I'm no Facebook fan, but I'd guess that if cboats would become a paying service, quite a bit of the activity would move to Facebook (which is a barrier as well for many non-fb-users, but fb does not care).
From personal experience I know it also takes quite a bit of time to setup and maintain the site/service/support. You guys do a great job, with limited downtime. But as soon as you have "paying customers" expectation for service will probably rise. A "commercial" model in whatever format does change the way of working quite a bit.

[Larry Horne]

I think Jakke is 100% correct. I doubt I would sign up.
IMO you should keep it so all have equal access.
Perhaps once a year do a "fundraiser" to remind us that you need money, and if we like the site we should chip in. Just don't make it a requirement.
I'm not interested in sponsor tags or rank but I would be quite motivated ($75) by a decent t-shirt .

[adamin]

Sorry I wasn't more clear - we have no intention of making what is available now a for-pay site, and for the very reasons you state. Members on other sites can do things like have unlimited image hosting, video hosting, special forums, etc.... Not sure we want to go there, but seeing so many successful forums doing so I figure it is at least worth asking!

As to the other points, we'll have to come up with a snazzy "sponsor" t-shirt again one of these days:)

[oc ender]

I have no idea of what it takes to run a site like this, but it is top notch and my favorite site.I've bought boats, met folks and received valuable advice on a wide range of boating topics. I enjoy the vids and the stories of boaters I aspire to match skills with.The time and skill it takes to operate this site is admirable. I for one would certainly be willing to cover costs and perhaps put a little cash in the hands of the people that run it.I pay fees for other crap I don't get much out of, so for this site I would.A small fee or the option of the more you donate, perhaps s ball cap,t shirt etc.And ya, a fund raiser is a great idea,perhaps a couple of festivals..One out East and one out West?

Anyway, thanks for the site and keep the site alive.By the way, I must say that I miss Louie and his unique perspective. Just sayin'...

[Acosi151]

I've been a 'supporting member' on other forums in the past. I'd suggest doing a 'members only' avatar designation and offer a t-shirt/tuque/towel/sticker/whatever every year with a $20~40 annual subscripton. Something tangible for the money along with the subcription.

All members, suscribed or not should have the same forum priveleges.. "members only" forums, sections and whatnot either don't work or become a "cool kids only" area.

I'll support whatever the decision is, C-boats has given me a lot. I would suggest putting some effort into the swag store first (I won't pull puches.. it really sucks). Might just drum up some funds without stirring up what can be a sometimes contentious debate.

[busterblue]

Is the purpose to cover existing costs or to grow the site?

[arhdc]

Like many here, I would pay for use of cboats.net if that is what was required (not that you are proposing pay for use) and if you are needing more revenue to at some point to keep it running then I'm in. If you decide to go that way just keep in mind that some may just decide that they are done with cboats, facebook (not the same I know) is free.

This site is very well run and has a very good feature set. Local image hosting is great and keeps the integrity of posts as they age better than 3rd party image hosting. I think that with the quality video hosting sites that are available (YouTube and Vimeo) and video hosting is costly to move in house. One exception to this may be that having a locally hosted compendium of the best instructional videos may be nice and would certainly make life easier on newbies just learning. Having said all that, there is one feature that I really want that currently is not available and that is mobile integration (think Mountain Buz Forum). I have messaged a bit with Kenneth about this and there are technical challenges to doing this but it would be very useful to me. Based on the number of "sent from mobile" tags that I see on Facebook posts from members here I would guess that it is something that a lot of folks would like.

If paying membership dues could get me better mobile access then I say go for it, not everyone would pay but some would and that may be all it takes. If it is a one time cost kind of thing then a fundraiser month with a goal to be met may suffice. I don't think that paid member only areas make much sense, especially since we are such a small community to begin with.

Just my $0.02, I love things as they are and any improvements would just be icing on the cake.

[Sir Adam]

Thank you all for the feedback - and keep it coming!

Yes, the CBoats.net Store could use an overhaul - we put most of our work in to the calendar (each image is color corrected, etc... - for the hours that go in to it it's likely a $5 an hour job, and that isn't $5 an hour work. Thankfully (for us) Adk Sara gets roped in to doing it for free:). With family commitments that doesn't leave a whole lot of time for new design work. Thankfully on the moderation side of things I've been lucky enough to have some folks volunteer their time to help out:)

Revenue from the ads is covering current costs, but we do everything on the cheap. Using commercial forum software might be doable soon IF we decide to go that way. Last time we looked at it we weren't sure it would be a real improvement vs. what Kenneth has put together for us. Yes, the big plus here might be mobile access.

We'll keep kicking ideas around (and keep them coming!) but so far what I'm hearing is as follows:
-All should have the same access
-site is fine as is image wise, etc...
-CBoats.net Store could use an update
-Subscription or Sponsor is OK but should not be mandatory, and should include "cool swag" (we tried this... maybe we'll try it again)
-Fund drive might make sense for a one time cost (mobile integration?) (on our end, especially if we have to set up accounts this might be prohibitive)

What I'm thinking of doing so far (to be discussed with Kenneth in a few weeks) is basically nothing "sponsor" wise for now, but figure out what it would take to integrate a mobile interface (and what it might cost time or $ wise), and discuss the CBoats.net Store with Adk Sara. Perhaps a graphic design contest is in order

[clarion]

I'd kick in and be part of a membership pool for a sticker or something. One thing that wouldn't cost much to change (and I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes here) but the "museum" on the main page is a little dated. To me foggy pictures of converted kayaks makes a marginal first impression to those coming over to investigate the Cboat scene. Like I said, hope I'm not hurting anyone's feelings. I put it out here instead of in private so others can tell me I'm full of it.

[Sir Adam]

Agreed! The converted kayak section is 100% user submission driven - and IIRC the last forum update broke the ability to add more and we have yet to fix it.

The rest of the museum (the C1 section is the "heart" of this site - the rest has been added because of requests believe it or not!) has undergone so many format changes, and digital camera technology has come so far in 12 years since most of the images where taken they should all be retaken.

One of these years hopefully I can make it a priority to re-take and upload all those images. Won't be this one though!

Keep the thoughts coming - we want to be sure to put what time we have to improve things here to their best use.

[TonyB]

Im 100% against a paid for caste system at cboats.net, sometime its hard enough trying to guage who really knows what theyre talking about with out a paid for title involved.


the site is great but I think it would drop if thought of as a paysite. theyres a lot of free games out there that frustrated me that otheres on there are getting better service for a charge so I just dont use the "free"
game.
I would like to see an update to the search functio, library, and maaybe PM sent as emails not just notifications.
There is a lot of revenue that can be raised thru proper fundraising, and I hope the canoe indusy are chipping in their part. (personally I dont think a couple of new boats wouldnt have made such an impact on the scene without places like cboats.

There are many cboaters, and new Ocboaters that dont utilize the site because of facebook and I wount like to see that chasm grow.


And if upgrades do happen Id hate to see the Adds grow and popup like on so many mainstreem sites/

[Sir Adam]

TonyB -thank you for your thoughts - please clarify what you'd like to see changed in the PM and e-mail system - currently you can send PM's OR e-mails IF the user has OK'd that in their profile. THey will receive a notification if they receive an e-mail (well, they get the e-mail!) or a PM. If you (or anyone) isn't getting them it is because they are being routed to a "spam" folder - and unfortunately there's not much we can do about that.

Other interesting items that we get questions on sometimes - PM's stay in our "outbox" until the recipient reads them, then they go to "sent" items. Nice to know if your PM has been read or not!

There will NOT be any pop up ads - that is the reason we took over the forum over a decade ago - the forum there was "free" and supported solely by pop up ads from the forum host (Network54). Wow did that get annoying. We had already started the "CBoat museum" and decided to host the forum as well if Scott W. was willing (and he was as the site had grown far beyond organizing the first "Concordia" in 1999, which is what it had been created to do). For many years we coughed up $ to pay for the hosting or hosted it ourselves (Kenneth did the hosting). Then we added ads to help offset the increasing costs as we had more users and needed more bandwidth and storage. Last year we tried a cheaper host but found their service to be very unreliable. We're back with pair.com and happy....

We talk about getting rid of the Google ads, as it does take up space and they are not always relevant. You may notice that there aren't any political or other ads here - we've blocked them. We lose a lot of revenue that way, but we don't want to be annoyed by them and know you don't want to either. If we can meet basic costs (we're all unpaid) we may just go that way.

Keep the thoughts coming!

[arhdc]

A members only "LouieOptionEnabled" forum.

Louie is the moderator

You sign a waver and promise on threat of being banned if you complain about it to any non-Louie moderators.

[dafriend]

I'm guessing Louie is too PO'd to post here even if he was offered payment.