Other wood species for gunwales

[ezwater]

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I wanted to remind folks that eds offers white ash gunwales in milled segments that one glues together with epoxy. The joints are sort of an ogived scarf. Sectioning makes them much cheaper to ship, and (I hope) would mean that the ash segments would be selected for straight grain and absence of faults. My interest in sectionals is that I want to put new gunwales on an 18.5' tandem, for which I would need almost 20' of stock. I haven't seen douglas fir that long in Atlanta, though maybe someone would make 'em up for me.

I also wanted to remind people of what white ash can do, when one gets the right stock. While one wants close grain for douglas fir or spruce, wide-grained ash is likely to be less likely to split and more able to take bending. If one gets ash with wide grain but limited runout, it will be tougher and more resistant to severe bending than other woods mentioned so far.

I had spruce gunwales on a 13' Mad River Compatriot. Jim Henry offered them because they were stiffer and lighter than ash of the same dimension, though not as ultimately resistant to splitting, or as rot resistant, as ash. Sure enough, going down a 5' slide with a load of camping gear, the gunwales split by the center thwart. Too lazy to totally refit gunwales, I cut tapered slats of white ash and epoxied them along the inwales, over the split. The repair lasted a long time, but eventually the spruce rotted, the FG hull developed hydrolysis blisters, and I cut the hull up and threw it away. I will say that the hydrolysis was a gelcoat problem, but the FG layup was outstanding. If every builder could do FG like that, there would be much less Kevlar sold.

[valhallalongboats]

I, too, have had excellent results with Doug-Fir. I started to use it when I lived in a place where I could not find long clear hardwood boards. I bought long D-F T&G flooring at the darn Home Depot. I have at least one >10 year old boat with the original D-F rails.

I cut them a full 3/4" x 3/4". Even now that I live in the land of white ash, I am likely to use D-F. To make an ash rail as light as a D-F piece, the ash has to be milled to Kaz-size dimensions; that generally over-taxes my craftsmanship. 3/4 x 3/4 gives plenty of wiggle room.

Also, note that many people use soft wood on the inside and hardwood out.

I have had fine results from both white and red oak.

On my list of stuff to do is track down some green, rough cut, clear white spruce boards. I think I'd like to try spruce rails.

Roy

One of the guys I know at Wenonah claims that the ONLY wood he will use for gunnels anymore is Sitka Spruce. (hope I spelled 'sitka' right). Precisely why this is I don't know, as the cost of Sitka causes me tremendous disinterest, but the guy knows boats, so I'm guessing there is something to it.

Rob

[Mikey B]

Probably the strength to weight ratio of Sitka spruce...why it's a preferred choice for tonewoods in musical instruments...but it does dent/mark super duper easily Plus you can get long straight grained wood

[ezwater]

I inherited a bunch of sitka spruce from a friend who had used it for building an "experimental" stunt biplane. I have made thwarts from some of it. The close-grained stock, the sort one would use for soundboards, doesn't dent any more easily than douglas fir. The spruce gunwales on my MR Compatriot may well have been sitka. As I said earlier, close-grained spruce is stiffer than ash for the same dimension, but not as tough.

I've dealt with sitka spruce soundboards in musical instrument kits. Stiff and light is what you want in a soundboard. In Europe, violin tops are made from close grained pine species, grown at high altitudes. A supplier of wood for guitars, harpsichords, etc., in North America reported that select douglas fir made good soundboards. Nowadays, more and more musical instruments, even cellos, are being made with carbon fiber and epoxy.

So close-grained sitka spruce would make good gunwales, if you could afford it, but sitka certainly is not the only light, stiff wood to consider, and douglas fir looks like a good alternative.

Just to reiterate, if you choose spruce, or douglas fir, or white pine, you want it close-grained. But if you choose ash, wide grain woud be preferred, if you can get it.

[sbroam]

Now, how about sources in the southeast US? My local wood and millwork suppliers don't have much in any lengths over 12'. I've rounded up some other folks in town that need boats re-gunwaled and we have a number of 16'+ boats on the list...

[thomsonbytheriver]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned cherry which I've seen used on alot of canoes. I also used Sassafrass on the Departure because it takes a crazy bend nicely. Just be careful and wear an N95 mask- that nutmeg smell is carcinogenic.

[ezwater]

I've done furniture in cherry, and got some cherry out of a big tree I took down in my yard. It always surprises me to hear that some people get long lengths, long enough for gunwales, out of cherry. The trees tend to change direction as they grow, the wood grain is interlocked and often doesn't run straight. The cherry in my yard was iron hard and heavy, and would need careful steaming to bend. Cherry supplied for furniture has cute little mineral inclusions that might cause snapping under load.

So one can get good cherry for a 60" clavichord case, and maybe for a paddle of similar length. But for gunwales? It'll be expensive because of the amount of wood that has to be set aside as unusable.

Ash is better. As the bugs kill the ash, the price may temporarily drop because of salvage, but then it will skyrocket.

I hope we can see more trials of douglas fir for gunwales. "Dougs" regrow quickly and can be managed sustainably by responsible foresters. They like to grow straight, so that one needn't put too much effort into hand selection. I have some lengths in the rafters of my basement that might be close to 20'.

A tree that grows straight with a predictable grain, light for a hardwood: tulip poplar. I think it could work for gunwales if selected carefully.

But for tough and flexible, ash is king.

[Mikey B]

Ahhh, ezwater...but up here one can actually get nice straight cherry...especially if the trees are growing in the woods amongst other trees...tend to grow straight and tall. Same with most all species...if the tree grows in the open more likely to branch out, have lower branches, be not as straight but if in a forest with close enough trees, they tend to grow straight and tall
But seriously, long straight boards of cherry aren't real uncommon up here anyways.

[ezwater]

In Warren Woods in Michigan, the big cherries were straighter than those in the Smokies, but not straight like the ash giants up there. Some tree species are more inclined to dodge to the side than others. Tulip poplar is very insistent about growing straight up. Farthest north I've seen tulip poplar is a Provincial Park on the south shore of Lake Huron.

I once paddled the Galien from Warren Woods to Lake Michigan, but that was at a time when some locals were cutting out the downed trees. Couldn't do it the last time I was up there.

[thomsonbytheriver]

Yup- Cherry is straight as an arrow in the Great White North- and abundant. In fact, it is soon to be more abundant than Ash due to the Emerald Ash Borer. Ottawa alone lost 80,000 Ash trees last year. They are being decimated, so Cherry may end up being the go to species for gunwales.