Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Decked Canoes, Open Canoes, as long as they're canoes!

Moderators: adamin, kenneth, sbroam, TheKrikkitWars, Mike W., Sir Adam, KNeal, PAC

avlclimber
C Guru
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:08 am
Location: Asheville, NC

Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by avlclimber » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:00 am

a few ppl have started paddling these beasts, and there are rumors circulating that the new L'edges are better handling and that they lean, carve, and respond better for a lighter paddler. I had written off the ledge for people in the sub 160 category. Is the new boat worth considering?

For reference, at 130ish, 5'10, I had to throw my weight right and left to get the old ledge on edge just to make an eddy. Looking for a creeker more stable than the Prelude, but more responsive than the brick ledge.

Thanks for opinions!!

Wendy
Paddling Benefactor
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:02 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by Wendy » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:27 pm

Yesterday I let a friend who weighs less, about same height use my lite L'Edge. She absolutely loved it and is going to buy one. Her husband paddled the original L'Edge, and at the end of the day when we took out some bulkhead mods so he would fit he ripped up Lesser Wesser. His comment- more responsive. She came from a Rodeo and Ocoee. They may chime in on the conversation. I have voiced my opinions before, but the L'Edge lite has all the positive attributes of the L'Edge- stability, boofs fantastic, ferries wonderfully with added responsiveness, handles low flow creeking with ease, even at my 200# weight. I do carve my bulkhead out so the knees are far out. Yesterday I tried my new system for adapting my large thigh hooks (for fat legs) for skinny/normal legs. IT worked fantastic. Buy Water Wings for kids. Blow up to desired amount and duct tape them into the thigh hook. For $5 you have a way to let different people demo bulkhead saddles.

User avatar
Todhunter
Ridge Spirit Outfitting
Posts: 768
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:42 am
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by Todhunter » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:41 pm

I've loved my L'heavy so far (140 lb paddler here). When it finally wears out down the road, I hope to get a L'ight.
Matt Todhunter
Ridge Spirit Outfitting - Custom Bulkhead Canoe Saddles

pblanc
CBoats Addict
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:55 pm

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by pblanc » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:27 pm

I paddled an original decked L'Edge down the Nantahala river twice. I found it forgiving, stable, and very dry but a bit of a pig, especially when trying to nail small eddies, just as you observed.

I paddled a L'Edge Light only very briefly a little upstream with a couple of ferries and surfing a small wave. I didn't have the opportunity to try to catch any small eddies in it. But it did feel much more responsive when trying to make any kind of move upstream.

ezwater
C Maven
Posts: 1652
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:43 am
Location: Decatur, GA

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by ezwater » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:54 pm

I don't understand why a minor weight reduction, and an increase in hull flexiness, would affect upstream moves.

User avatar
GSG
Pain Boater
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:34 pm
Location: Vancouver Island, BC.

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by GSG » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:48 pm

I haven't had the chance to paddle the light model, but I can comment on my decked L'edge. At 160 lbs, the only time I feel the boat is unresponsive is when moving it from a dead stop.

User avatar
Smurfwarrior
C Maven
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:09 am
Location: Utah

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by Smurfwarrior » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:37 am

Big difference between the boats in how it responds. The standard L'Edge took a bit to change directions, and get it going but from there they are the same. With that in mind, if you are changing directions a bunch and paddling aggressively you'll notice it big time. When attaining, the ability to get some speed up quick to make moves across eddylines is where the difference is most felt.

Einar
CBoats Addict
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:02 pm
Location: British Columbia

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by Einar » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:46 am

With low time in both versions I only have a limited observation and it is influenced by context; I come from paddling a light fast fun hull.

I thought there was large difference between the (h)eavy and (l)ight L'Edge, a difference greater than the shaving 10lbs off should have changed. I liked the light L'Edge, it said fun to me.

On this same topic on a different forum a couple of friends paddling original L'Edges took me to task, their point being that their (h) L'Edges have stood up to 40 runs of gr 4+ abuse and they didn't think a (l) L'Edge would do that... and they were right. I agreed.

On the other hand if you are running 3-3+ and want to get into something new, change up your style, then a lighter plastic boat might last you a lot longer, give you a bang for buck, and get you trying some moves that you sheltered your royalex hull from. A (l) L'Edge speaks to a different market.

And on the second hand, no boat lasts for ever, and shouldn't be babied to do so. Wrong sport.
If you are a more aggressive paddler and the (l) L'Edge ups your fun factor too, then I say go for the fun factor, wear out the boat.
Paddling is easy, organizing shuttles is hard.
Not misplacing all your crap in somebody else's car seems to be even harder

pblanc
CBoats Addict
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:55 pm

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by pblanc » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:59 pm

I think the weight difference between the regular L'Edge and the light version that I paddled was considerably more than 10 lbs. The L'Edge light weighed 53 lbs fully outfitted. I had no facility to weigh the fully decked regular L'Edge, but I have lifted many boats of various weights to the racks on my truck, and that thing was pushing 70 lbs (with outfitting).

But I agree that the biggest difference seemed to be in how the lighter version accelerated from a dead stop as in leaving an eddy for an upstream ferry or attaining onto a surf wave. I also agree that the difference seemed to be greater than what one might expect from even a 15-20 lb weight difference.

milkman
C Maven
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:13 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by milkman » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:58 pm

On this same topic on a different forum a couple of friends paddling original L'Edges took me to task, their point being that their (h) L'Edges have stood up to 40 runs of gr 4+ abuse and they didn't think a (l) L'Edge would do that... and they were right. I agreed.
Einar, exactly what is this based on? I don't think I've seen anything about the light L'edges being less tough. I have yet to hear of someone cracking one--which has been pretty common on the heavier L'edges despite your friends' experiences. The three heavy L'edge owners I know have all cracked their boats, two within the first year, one just beyond the first year.

User avatar
dafriend
C Guru
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 10:44 pm
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by dafriend » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:25 pm

There is more to the lighter L'Edge than just the weight change. As it was explained to me (by people with first-hand knowledge) the manufacturing process of the new lighter L'Edge was changed to cure the heavier version's tendency to crack. Last March a lite L'Edge was given to a well known class IV/V boater in the SE with instructions to torture test it. He proceeded to boof, rock spin and bash it down the most demanding creeks the SE has to offer. To the best of my knowledge he failed to break it. I have to disagree with the idea the heavier boats are more durable.

milkman
C Maven
Posts: 1104
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:13 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by milkman » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:32 pm

I have to disagree with the idea the heavier boats are more durable.
That's exactly what I was wondering. It seems to me that there is an optimal thickness for flexibility that would allow the boat to take hits without cracking. Two of the heavier L'edges that I saw crack, cracked where some of the material was at its very thickiest on the bottom of the boat beneath the seat.

User avatar
dafriend
C Guru
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 10:44 pm
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by dafriend » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:40 pm

milkman wrote:
I have to disagree with the idea the heavier boats are more durable.
Two of the heavier L'edges that I saw crack, cracked where some of the material was at its very thickiest on the bottom of the boat beneath the seat.
The cracks I've seen were in the same area.

I don't know details about how manufacturing changed, but I'm certain that improving durability was high (if not first) on the list of reasons for the changes.

User avatar
mahyongg
C Guru
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:47 pm

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by mahyongg » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:41 pm

Einar, and everybody else.. to the extend of my knowledge, the L'ight is actually more capable of handling heavy hits than the L'heavy. Testament to this are the L'ights out there in the hand of some pretty brutal abusers (namely shawn malone, eli, and some others paddling the gnar on a regular basis, which comes down to: what they do in a month, regular paddlers usually do in a year or so) and IIRC not one has broken yet. The development of the L'Ight was also inspired by the fact that some early Prototypes that were rotated with less PE actually had a longer life than the later heavy models..

Part of that could be due to the fact that it CAN flex away from big impacts, while the thicker skinned L'Rhino (or L'Crack as its known in the south, notorious for it's rocky runs and heavy boat abusing boaters to boot) would just.. crack.

The updated plastic formula (yes, PE is not like PE.. there are different kinds) does the rest. So fear not, if you go the L'ight way, you will get a boat that is well capable of going to paddle Class IV and beyond, for what it's worth. Now if you want to judge it by the ability to take more abrasion then it might actually be different.. so better think about what and how you paddle ;D

The other thing, as was said, it's just a boat, get over it and go paddle.. you likely pay more for gas to go to the river in the same period than for your boats, which is little reason for most to drive smaller cars.. just saying. Oh, also, very few people keep good enough track of that to actually think about it, so it's clouded in small, frequent payments ;D

Now, to the original point, from my brief experience in Eli's outfitting which fit my larger thighs very badly and the comparative ride in another L'Edge right after that, I can say it really does feel like it really was what the L'Edge needed to develop it's full potential. I'd say it's definitely NOT in the leaning/responsiveness of throwing the hull around vs. the L'Heavy, because that is affected much more by the shape of the hull than the longitudinal rotational masses inertia (roughly translating to "the force you need to apply to roll it"). That said, the difference in acceleration is something you will notice right away, and if your paddling style is anywhere near "active" (which it should be, if you want to style harder runs) then you'll embrace this fact right away.

That said, thinking about weight in all your gear decisions is definitely something that, while not very popular with some people (read: brass screws..), will usually get you a better paddling experience, usually for cheap. A paddling buddy of mine got the weight of his standard L'Edge way down just by tuning the outfitting (down to thinner thwarts and lighter airbags). One way to go for all you L'Heavy owners who don't want to/can switch around right now..

Edit: Ha. What Dave said.. in the meantime.. see above. Should I be more hush-hush about names here? I like transparency though and since this is not a bash-down rather than a judge-up, I guessed it's very OK to name the Game ;D

Wendy
Paddling Benefactor
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:02 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: Light L'edge v/s L'edge (responsiveness)

Post by Wendy » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:18 pm

Einar,
I agree your comments about durability of the light L'Edge are not based from any information/ breakage I have heard. I have heard firsthand the changes that were made in the molding and plastic, as discussed above. I have a L'Edge Lite and while I don't paddle class V, I paddle class III-IV, II-III, boof, splat, and have drug my boat when my neck was acting up since MArch 2013 paddling 2-4 days a week. The boat is doing fantastic. IN the elf runs I have done it floated over rocks, flexed and no damage. I have seal launched with no problems.
If you were assuming the L"Edge Lite had those charcteristics you will be pleasantly surprised.

Post Reply