Creeking in an Ion (or anything small) vs. L'edge?

[Bob Wiggins]

well, the ion certainly has sharp edges- it was designed as a comp. freestyle boat, after all.

[FullGnarlzOC]

L'edge with the edge.

[gumpy]

wrong, and wrong again.

spanish fly!

[ian123]

The fly definitely has the most edge if you look at it.... I m not sure it feels like it has anymore edge than a L'edge though.

[markzak]

I think gumpy has it right, you're looking for an open boat built on a playboating hull like the Spanish Fly and Ion. I've paddled a Prelude, Spanish Fly, and Ion a lot...and many other open boats. Coming from C1 creekers and playboats, and creekboats with planning hulls and displacement this and that... I think there are times and places where you may really want a longer and rounder boat for super steep rapids and big falls. But I think folks that want to creek hard and still have some river running and river play fun, can think of the Ion as a good option. Just like some kayak creek boat designs, there are advantages to having an edgier boat and the canoe advantages are similar.

I hear this same question frequently: how can a short boat like the Ion actually creek? is it hole bait like it looks like it is?

The ION creeks great. It is nimble, stable, and predictable. Yes, its short but no its not hole bait. The high volume ends, and wide stable platform keeps the boat up and over holes. I think the playboat hull actually allows the boat to release from holes like a planning hull creek boat, by gently catching an edge and kicking you out. The short length of the boat with the high volume ends, keeps it dry and allows the boat to carry momentum up and over holes. Its not like the spanish fly that tends to dive into holes at every opportunity.

The Ion is not a fast boat, but it is not slow and definitely not sluggish. It is an active boat that peels out of an eddy with precision and comes to speed immediately, giving you control and momentum.

I've creeked with the Ion hard this season and run really big water, technical water, and playboated. If you're looking for a strong creekboat that is fun and nimble and makes move with ease, but still has some fun playboating on your local run, I think is the Ion is something you have to try. I would try some other boats too if you can like a Spanish Fly.

[RodeoClown]

From my recollection, the chines on the Ion and Spanishfly are fairly similar, but the Ion has a bit of of a squarer sidewall, and less rocker in the stern, so it should have more 'effective' edge. The Option has a bit less of an edge, but in all the right places. It's been a while since I've paddled L'edge or really looked at one, so I'm not sure how it fits in the mix.

[Craig Smerda]

From my recollection, the chines on the Ion and Spanishfly are fairly similar, but the Ion has a bit of of a squarer sidewall, and less rocker in the stern, so it should have more 'effective' edge. The Option has a bit less of an edge, but in all the right places. It's been a while since I've paddled L'edge or really looked at one, so I'm not sure how it fits in the mix.

3,000 words...

Get your camera out and flip 'em over dude...

[markzak]

Smerdas photos are helpful and these are the Ion pics I have for now and it will be dark when I get home tonight, but I can post more over the weekend.

What is interesting to me about the L'edge is that the CAD design shows a flatter and edgier planing hull than the production boat. Note the more rounded bottom of the production boat in Smerdas pics. I don't know if that was intentional, but the production boat is less playful than I was expecting but then that transfers over to a more forgiving, but perhaps less responsive hull.

[Craig Smerda]

What is interesting to me about the L'edge is that the CAD design shows a flatter and edgier planing hull than the production boat. Note the more rounded bottom of the production boat in Smerdas pics. I don't know if that was intentional, but the production boat is less playful than I was expecting but then that transfers over to a more forgiving, but perhaps less responsive hull.

I think that might be more an optical illusion than anything else... it doesn't have a dead flat bottom unlike the prototype which was... we added a touch of crown to the bottom and de-fanged the edge chine which was far more aggressive than they needed to be.

Here's a bottom shot of one of my hulls.


The Ion like the Blackfly has a very flat bottom.

Just for reference... here's an upside down CUFly.


I've also found that the crown on the bottom of the hull can change ever-so-slightly when you tinker with the thwart lengths.



R&D boat with dead flat bottom in the center... and fangs!

[Craig Smerda]

by Paul Mason

I'd describe the bottom of the hull and hull bottom to edge transition of the Ion (and Blackfly it was derived from) as a flat planing hull as you'd find on most any playboat out there.

The Fluid Flirt being one that quickly comes to mind...


Jackson All-Star


Wavesport Project X



The SpanishFly (see above) or Option is more of a round displacement style hull with a release. The L'edge is a total Heinz 57 blend but it's mostly displacement as well.


There's several ways to skin a cat...

[Craig Smerda]

Also... regarding "edges" and some comments from far above.

From Mohawk Canoes website comes this handy little diagram...


Which boat series as shown above do you think has more "edge"?

Something else to consider is the length and placement of that "edge"... is the "edge" just in a certain area like the stern or does it run the entire length of the hull... is the "edge" harder in the ends or is it hard "edge'd" in the middle of the boat but get's softer going towards the bow and/or stern? Etc...

I wouldn't call the SpanishFly "edgy" at all although it just like 99% of the boats out there does have an "edge". A CUFly has more "edge" in the middle of the hull than a SpanishFly does... trust me on this... or don't.

If one spends enough time staring at the bottom of boats no matter if they are canoes or kayaks... well... I probably spend too much time in the garage and the first thing I love to do when I see a new kayak is to flip it over... especially if people really like it. There's a lot to be learned from what others have already done no matter if it works or not... frankly I enjoy looking at "bottoms".

[ian123]

What boat is sandwiched between the fly and l'edge prototype?

[TheKrikkitWars]

What boat is sandwiched between the fly and l'edge prototype?

Skeeter?

[SkeeterGuy86]

What boat is sandwiched between the fly and l'edge prototype?

Skeeter?

yep