Brewbeer wrote: I am not a finesse kind of paddler (yet).
Thats probably up for more discussion, as that Nitro is surely not helping you the finesse department. Maybe you should try a composite hull to see how much easier a light-stiff-high performance hull feels and paddles There's probably someone that could help you out in that department?
^~^~^ different strokes ~ for different folks ^~^~^
I love my new Viper 11. I used a Nitro before and had similar feelings towards it. The Viper takes a little more getting used to but it spins in and out of eddies and absolutely flies. It's a great boat and it's cheaper than a composite.
Personally I thought the Nitro was like paddling a beach ball.
Can't say I'm inclined to give it a second chance though better paddlers than me seem to love it.
The Detonator is a much better hull IMO. Easily controlled and a bit quicker. Lighter too. I doubt it will be nearly as dry.
The Spark is a sweet hull, fast and responsive. But I'm guessing your swim count will go way up for a while. If you stay with it your skills will soar.
The Encore is big like the Nitro, very forgiving, and handles well if you lay it over on the rails. Mine (now Erik's) was not light.
The Outrage (my fave) is almost as forgiving as the Encore, carves tighter and attains easier. It too benefits from a hard lean.
I am lusting after a Rhumba from Kaz. Like you I question the wisdom of my limited skills in glass. But my Millbrook Souhegan poling boat see's plenty of rocks without much harm. It survived an ugly pin last fall with surprisingly minimal damage.
to add to what Chris said... the Viper 11 sounds like a good fit for you. It has the stability to help you grow as a paddler, and has the chines and speed to allow you to have a very fun time on the water.
Mohawk has very reasonable prices as far as canoes go, as well as offering their customers a payment plan if it's needed.
I am located in Central PA, and couple probably make a trip out to let you demo the Viper 11. Wouldn't mind helping you out with some things that you are having trouble with either, whatever they may be.
I think the Viper 11 is the perfect all -around boat for anyone willing to learn and love the chines. Creeking, river running, playing, and big water. Corners on rails without flipping you in squirrelly water.
If you're going short and plastic, look to the Prelude for edges (if you're light,) the L'edge for stability, and the Option for an all-arounder.
If you don't like chines, I'm not sure you can beat an Outrage. I think that boat will take it anywhere you want it to, though I haven't paddled one (because no one will sell theirs.)
If anyone is looking for a Viper 11 and is willing to patch a big hole, I will sell mine cheap. (you never see them used either...)
I second avlclimber, or even go a step further. I think the Viper11 is still the best allround open canoe out there. For me it made the best sacrifices for the biggest overall gains.
And the viper11 is a lot more fun to paddle - on average- then the nitro.
It's just a real shame I can't get a replacemente viper11 for mine in Europe, since mine is getting some serious delamination at the chines.
Mohawk, please boost your export to europe, to start with, find a dealer .
jakke wrote:It's just a real shame I can't get a replacemente viper11 for mine in Europe, since mine is getting some serious delamination at the chines.
Mohawk, please boost your export to europe, to start with, find a dealer .
Cheap ferry Zeebrugge-Hull; drive across to Stockport, collect boat catch evening ferry back. Take some company with you to enjoy the bar and duty free on the boat... and you'd have an alright weekend trip going.
Alternately I'm sure Brookbank would arrange to courier one out to you for a fee.
Joshua Kelly - "More George Smiley than James Bond"
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
Glass / Kevlar boats do in fact handle "some" rock hits just fine. Just looking at the bottom of most of my boats will show that:) Regular abuse is discouraged (creeking in many places, dragging the boat (though given the weight you dont need to!).
Once you go glass, you won't go back to plastic (unless you creek )
I have Viper 11 Royalex and a Viper 11 Kevlar. Both boats are one owner.
The kevlar is far and away the better boat, all of Viper 11's design qualities, just more. Really accelerates and carves. Just pure fun, it has so much character.
That said I have been thru one royalite v11, and am finishing off a 2nd royalex v11 hull. I spend most of my time in royalex.
For B.C.'s coastal short drainage, continuous rock rivers it is nice to throw the cheaper royalex hull into the mixer.
I put a Gflxs repair into the int. chines and reversed the symmetric hull to try and get as few more pin and broaches out of it but it's gettin heavy. So it goes.
it's not a toy, or a bathtub....its serious creeking fun and it's small. It's PE! No bow lines needed. Its lighter than a bunch of canoes....and you can fit it in the back of lots of vehicles for better gas mileage. It's way more stable than you would think and when the word finally gets out I think its gonna be huge.
If you outstrip your goal rivers the ion will do awesome on the upper yough and beyond. Did I mention It drags just fine too.
On the other end of things I really like Mohawk's Viper 11....that's one nice canoe to rail in and out of eddies. I'm not sure it addresses your dislike of the nitro's awkwardness and weight of moving a canoe around on land, but the viper is no worse.
ncdavid wrote:Some company is going to buy the mold and start making new Ocoees. Mohawk Ocoee? Esquif Ocoee? How 'bout a Millbrook Ocoee? I'd buy that boat.
Do you think our collective karma is really that good? I certainly hope so...
ncdavid wrote:Some company is going to buy the mold and start making new Ocoees. Mohawk Ocoee? Esquif Ocoee? How 'bout a Millbrook Ocoee? I'd buy that boat.
Do you think our collective karma is really that good? I certainly hope so...
Shep
If the canoeist's wish fairy is listening right now, I'd like to see Esquif make a rotomoulded Ocoee.
Joshua Kelly - "More George Smiley than James Bond"
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
ncdavid wrote:Some company is going to buy the mold and start making new Ocoees. Mohawk Ocoee? Esquif Ocoee? How 'bout a Millbrook Ocoee? I'd buy that boat.
Do you think our collective karma is really that good? I certainly hope so...
Shep
If the canoeist's wish fairy is listening right now, I'd like to see Esquif make a rotomoulded Ocoee.
Do you realize how much that would weigh?
Also... there is no rotomolding mold for an Ocoee... only a fiberglass "vacum suck" RX one. That all being said... I wouldn't mind seeing them made in camo R-light with wood trim and a bulkhead saddle.
is surely not helping you the finesse department. Maybe you should try a composite hull to see how much easier a light-stiff-high performance hull feels and paddles There's probably someone that could help you out in that department?
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