Today on the river (specifically the Afon Lledr, a pooldrop 4+[6]) I had a really horrific experience;
I was paddling ok, but rusty after a couple of months with no water, ran the first major drop fine, but stopped dead on the back of the towback of a big hole which spooked me, did the first mandatory portage, got back in and ran the next drop fine, but capsized in the flat just after it...
As I rolled up I became totally overtaken by fear, I immediately got out portaged the next two drops, got back on below (continuous class 3 boulder garden) and still felt overwhelmed, totally afraid of everything, and on the verge of panic...
One of my paddling buddies spent the rest of the river talking me down, just to keep me from totally freaking out, and I portaged every other major drop and the short section of class 4 after the second mandatory portage.
The thing is I've paddled the river several times before, without portaging. I even managed it all as a kayaker, and my technical skill in a canoe has now surpassed my former skills as a yakker.
I don't understand what happened to me, and I'm more than a little worried that if it happens again either I'll frell myself up, or it'll mark the end of my paddling career...
Head Games
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TheKrikkitWars
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Head Games
Joshua Kelly - "More George Smiley than James Bond"
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. "
Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear. Dune
That's unusual, as if you had your first panic attack in unusual circumstances. So that it doesn't morph into PTSD, suggest you try to re-experience and discuss it repeatedly in the company of one or two close friends (who should mostly STFU). This should help the fear experience to not become associated in your mind with running drops you've run successfully before.
In all my wanderings as a psychologist, I don't recall hearing of a panic attack developing in circumstances mastered previously. At least not with some other contributing cause.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. "
Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear. Dune
That's unusual, as if you had your first panic attack in unusual circumstances. So that it doesn't morph into PTSD, suggest you try to re-experience and discuss it repeatedly in the company of one or two close friends (who should mostly STFU). This should help the fear experience to not become associated in your mind with running drops you've run successfully before.
In all my wanderings as a psychologist, I don't recall hearing of a panic attack developing in circumstances mastered previously. At least not with some other contributing cause.
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xmas0c1c1k1
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large steaming pile of dog doo happens the brain is a funny thing just work through it at your own pace get on some easier stuff and get your confidence back.
I struggled with demons in my head for a long time after I hurt my shoulder just had to work my way back up to running the stuff I was running before.
I do know people that have gotten a big scare and toned it down pretty much for good I think some of it is as you get older and paddled for longer you start to realize that maybe scaring the large steaming pile of dog doo out of yourself isn't what you paddle for I dunno just some of my thoughts I think you will push through it
good luck
I struggled with demons in my head for a long time after I hurt my shoulder just had to work my way back up to running the stuff I was running before.
I do know people that have gotten a big scare and toned it down pretty much for good I think some of it is as you get older and paddled for longer you start to realize that maybe scaring the large steaming pile of dog doo out of yourself isn't what you paddle for I dunno just some of my thoughts I think you will push through it
good luck
I watched a friend of mine loose his spirit on the Lower Yough the day after running the Big Sandy with a couple swims. He portaged some of the rapids like River's End. (III) He's run that river for almost 25 years K-1 and OC-1. It happens.
I don't think he's come back yet. Fear is a powerful thing on the river. Work through it, it will get better if you try!
I don't think he's come back yet. Fear is a powerful thing on the river. Work through it, it will get better if you try!
I had the same type of thing happen to me about 10 years ago. It sucked the run I was on I had ran dozns of times, that day I froze, freaked out and just about shat myself. Freaked me out so I started reading all types of martial art books that deals with mind control. DOnt know if it helped or if just boating with friends in no stress situations helped or what. It will get better dont sweat it.
Richard Guin
Lazy good for nothing slacker
Lazy good for nothing slacker
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french erick
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Hey Josh!
I don't think I ever experienced it as strongly as you've just described but I had serious bouts of self-doubt creeping in.
Climbing is a typical one... it's really hard won and easily lost over short periods of non activity.
What works for me is
1) Not getting pissed off at my "not performing". After all you laid off for a while. Why would you expect to perform as well as last time, when you were at the top of your game???
2) Over a short period of time, that I decide in advance (too long can be counter productive as you enjoy complete control too much), take some routes [rivers] that I know well from lower levels and work my way up. Importantly they must be personal benchmarks that you feel were big steps up in your career.
This allows me to reassure myself on my skills and knowledge of the sport in question.
3) Choose my partners carefully at this stage. I take those who are very competent but also have a no-nonsense attitude and shall tell me to MTFU at appropriate times.
I suffered such a drawback this winter, admittedly on something new and as hard as I ever tried winter climbing... and before the 3 steps afore mentioned I took 6 weeks off after my big fall. During that time I reviewed why I was climbing, what I thought my progression will be, where I want to be as a climber in 3 years time... winter is finished but I'm rock climbing really well for the lack thereof and I seem to have developped a "grim determination" that I never had before.
BTW, boating loads on my local alpine river and doing really well! Now I feel like we can finally meet up and paddle together.
Which bring a question: I'm planning to visit a good pal of mine in South Wales on the first weekend of August on my way back up to Glasgow...are you about? I would really like to paddle with you. I'm in no doubt you're a skilled paddler who has decidedly something to teach me, despite whatever drawback you think you suffered.
I don't think I ever experienced it as strongly as you've just described but I had serious bouts of self-doubt creeping in.
Climbing is a typical one... it's really hard won and easily lost over short periods of non activity.
What works for me is
1) Not getting pissed off at my "not performing". After all you laid off for a while. Why would you expect to perform as well as last time, when you were at the top of your game???
2) Over a short period of time, that I decide in advance (too long can be counter productive as you enjoy complete control too much), take some routes [rivers] that I know well from lower levels and work my way up. Importantly they must be personal benchmarks that you feel were big steps up in your career.
This allows me to reassure myself on my skills and knowledge of the sport in question.
3) Choose my partners carefully at this stage. I take those who are very competent but also have a no-nonsense attitude and shall tell me to MTFU at appropriate times.
I suffered such a drawback this winter, admittedly on something new and as hard as I ever tried winter climbing... and before the 3 steps afore mentioned I took 6 weeks off after my big fall. During that time I reviewed why I was climbing, what I thought my progression will be, where I want to be as a climber in 3 years time... winter is finished but I'm rock climbing really well for the lack thereof and I seem to have developped a "grim determination" that I never had before.
BTW, boating loads on my local alpine river and doing really well! Now I feel like we can finally meet up and paddle together.
Which bring a question: I'm planning to visit a good pal of mine in South Wales on the first weekend of August on my way back up to Glasgow...are you about? I would really like to paddle with you. I'm in no doubt you're a skilled paddler who has decidedly something to teach me, despite whatever drawback you think you suffered.
Erick Baillot
I got hurt one day on a rapid that I've paddled often. Broke three bones in my back, peed blood for many weeks. Kept having the dream where I was swimming and couldn't move my leg. The next ten times I paddled that river, I carried that rapid. Paddled harder stuff on different rivers many times before I felt good about running the one that hurt me. My injury was over 4 years ago now. I've now paddled that rapid again at least 30 times. And I get out and look at it first every time. Don't rush it. The river will be there when you're ready.
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TheKrikkitWars
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I've done a little bit of research, and what ezwater was saying about Panic Attacks seems to vaguely fit, especially as there's a fair bit going on in my life right now which could have contributed, I don't think it was anything to do with the river, just that I was in a bad place the other day and something compounded the normal mild fear into something rather nasty. I feel like I could go back today and run the whole gorge without a second thought, if there was water (It's run off now) I'd be chomping at the bit to do just that.
I may (and it's a big maybe,) be able to drag my dad back across to wales on a paddling daytrip (I think he'd be game, He desperately wants to run the Fairy Glen [not that I'm particularly happy with that stretch myself])...
Hrumph, It's taking a long time for the logistics of us to actually meeting in person to work out favourably isn't it
If not are you likely to be at the WWPF as I'm up for that (and possibly a week before) and will definately be bringing my Prelude (and I believe that Big Dog and Bob McKee will have the Force Turret's up too).
I'm not sure how much I could actually teach you, I don't do too badly at surviving, but I'm no Kelvin... (Who is though?)
Out of interest what is your local river/section? I seem to remember you're from the Ubaye valley, which has a nice selection of classic alpine rivers from fast grade 2/3 up to the grade 6 grimness of Lions Den (which presumably has a completely unrelated name in french) in the gorge and all points between.?
I can see this as having been a contributory factor (amongst others), I really don't deal with percived or actual loss of skills very well at all, It causes me a lot of stress, which is compounded by the atmosphere of constant pisstaking (not just directed at me mind) in my extended group meaning I feel that I absolutely *must* perform.french erick wrote:1) Not getting pissed off at my "not performing". After all you laid off for a while. Why would you expect to perform as well as last time, when you were at the top of your game???
I don't actually know whether I'll be in Bangor that weekend, as it's my birthday the preceeding week and I promised my mum that she'd get to see me at least once this summer.french erick wrote:BTW, boating loads on my local alpine river and doing really well! Now I feel like we can finally meet up and paddle together.
Which bring a question: I'm planning to visit a good pal of mine in South Wales on the first weekend of August on my way back up to Glasgow...are you about? I would really like to paddle with you. I'm in no doubt you're a skilled paddler who has decidedly something to teach me, despite whatever drawback you think you suffered.
I may (and it's a big maybe,) be able to drag my dad back across to wales on a paddling daytrip (I think he'd be game, He desperately wants to run the Fairy Glen [not that I'm particularly happy with that stretch myself])...
Hrumph, It's taking a long time for the logistics of us to actually meeting in person to work out favourably isn't it
If not are you likely to be at the WWPF as I'm up for that (and possibly a week before) and will definately be bringing my Prelude (and I believe that Big Dog and Bob McKee will have the Force Turret's up too).
I'm not sure how much I could actually teach you, I don't do too badly at surviving, but I'm no Kelvin... (Who is though?)
Out of interest what is your local river/section? I seem to remember you're from the Ubaye valley, which has a nice selection of classic alpine rivers from fast grade 2/3 up to the grade 6 grimness of Lions Den (which presumably has a completely unrelated name in french) in the gorge and all points between.?
Joshua Kelly - "More George Smiley than James Bond"
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
CBoats Moderator - Not necessarily representing the CBoats staff though...(I'll use words like "moderator", "We" and "CBoats" to make it clear when I am)
Stay healthy
Sometimes our perception of the event is influenced by our physical responses. If you became short of breath on the roll, or your heart rate went up, that may initiate a perception of distress or fear. Then your head takes over and in addition to the physical response it cascades into an emotional response.
One thing to do is to take inventory of all of your physical health. For example, a touch of asthma could set off a physical response of shortness of breath and high heart rate. So could medications (such as Sudafed or caffeine) or physical deconditioning. Remedying all of the physical issues will make it much easier to prevent this type of response in the river.
Good luck.
One thing to do is to take inventory of all of your physical health. For example, a touch of asthma could set off a physical response of shortness of breath and high heart rate. So could medications (such as Sudafed or caffeine) or physical deconditioning. Remedying all of the physical issues will make it much easier to prevent this type of response in the river.
Good luck.
Jim