Opinion on pumps....

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:06 pm

... just curious ...

as to what most people here think about electric pumps in an open canoe

cmnypny · Post by **cmnypny** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:13 pm

Well here is my opinion on the subject.

It took me about 8 months to decided whether I was going to install them or not.

After some advice from paddling buddies I resepect ... I bit the bullet and did it.

I have found it has allowed me to run bigger wetter lines more safe than without. The pumps allow me to get a huge butt boat full of water to an eddy in a more safe and easy manner.

I have only had one pump failure due to a bizzare airlock but my second pump still functions. The pump came back to life a few minutes later.

Crap happens and things can fail.

Just don't think you can be super man/woman and be invincible.

I won't go back to not having a pump in my boat.

milkman · Post by **milkman** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:22 pm

I don't like what your choice #4 suggests about women. You might want to rethink the wording on that one. There are female OC1ers right now in the world that can probably paddle circles around you while bailing water in your face.

c1swim · Post by **c1swim** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:36 pm

I was all for self-bailing rafts, but it seems a bit sacrilegious. It takes the "primitive" right out of "craft".
However, they work wonderfully and must have a place in the grand scheme of things.

Post by **sbroam** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:54 pm

I thought they were "cheating" for a long time but have softened my position on them a bit. I think if I was playboating a lot in an OC-1 still, I'd already have one. You spend an awful lot of time dumping a boat out... With only so many hours of river time per week / month, I'd rather spend my time playing than bailing. I don't see that they keep a boat dry enough that you stop paddling them as open boats, at least with regards to straight up river running - I don't think I would just barrel through rapids and if I did, I'd still end up thigh deep in water for the couple of minutes it would take to get pumped dry.

And I do have the C-1s for when I want to stay particularly warm and dry or don't want to fool with bailing (like an extended high water surf session)...

Will I install one? Probably not any time soon.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:04 pm

I like them for the following reasons:

a) playing: more playtime, less dump-time as you don't loose your spot in the line-up

b) creeking: after catching an eddy, the boat will be empty by the time I have boat-scouted the next drop (o.k., once in a while you still have to get out to look at stuff

c) I can splash unexpecting kayaker's faces in the line-up...

...

one thing I don't like: they add weight.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

Jim P · Post by **Jim P** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:48 pm

What Martin said...

They really don't help keep you out of trouble when running big stuff as they will not keep up with the inflow. If you make a mistake you get a boat full of water, you still have to manage it. Once you are down low in the water in a rapid, pumps will not keep up with any inflow.

Great for getting things empty quickly with little effort once you get into an eddy.

I rarely run the pump when paddling a rapid, sometimes will turn on as I enter a hole to surf but mostly after I get to a pool or eddy.

No need for your skirted friends to wait for you on a trip

Open Gate · Post by **Open Gate** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:00 pm

milkman wrote:I don't like what your choice #4 suggests about women. You might want to rethink the wording on that one. There are female OC1ers right now in the world that can probably paddle circles around you while bailing water in your face.

Excellent point, I know a few excellent female OC paddlers that would laugh at that statement ! This is not the way to bring new paddlers to our sport

Cheer the ladies instead !

I don't like pumps. It's personnal, 6 knee surgeries of one a reconstruction of my MCL...I have to stop and stretch. Might as well empty my boat.

And also don't like relying on a mechanical / electrical system while outdoors.

Big Al · Post by **Big Al** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:23 pm

Not a good idea..pumps are a GREAT idea. They just save so much aggravation, bailing and whatnot.

An example would be the Savage run PAC and I did this fall, him in the FINK (in which I look much better than he)., and me in the ZOOM.....lots and lots of continuous waves and very, very wet in an OC1. I had that pump running almost the entire stretch...there are just too few places to eddy out to bail,never mind stopping to stretch.
Paddling harder rapids has been made a lot easier and less tiresome with a pump.

jscottl67 · Post by **jscottl67** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:38 pm

I love having the pump in the boat as I run a very wet boat. I've run the boat with and without the bilge, and depending on what I'm running, I've left it out of the boat before intentionally.

I think everyone should learn to run their boat dry, quarter and block waves and all of that, and I still do those things even with the bilge in. On times that I've run without the pump and the other OCs I am running with have theirs, it is a pain for them to wait for me to dump or bail manually.

I'd say the biggest benefit to the bilge (well...at least where I paddle) is when playing at a feature that is going to put some water in your boat no mattter what technique you use. Having the pump lets you play longer before you have to leave, and side sufing while bailing manually would tend to lead to a bit of roll practice

cheajack · Post by **cheajack** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:10 pm

I've had my spine operated on three times and would have a difficult time dumping a boat full of water if any lifting was involved. The pump gets me out of that predicament. Also, back when it was raining in the SE, and occassionally there would be rivers full bank to bank; the pump would allow clearing the boat when eddies were scarce or unavailable. I almost never run rapids with my pump running but use it at the bottom.

Nate · Post by **Nate** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:31 pm

If I were spending a lot of time on big, high volume rivers I might see a place for the electric pumps. But as far as I'm concerned, they are unnecessary for most creeks and class III-IV rivers. They do however have a time and a place.

Nate

driftwood · Post by **driftwood** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:51 pm

two things piss me off in on the rivers

1: motorized water craft

2: cocky kayakers who have never seen a c-boat

It used to be that i had to hold up my kayaking buddies because I had to stop and bail, but then I got a boat with a pump, now can I run harder stuff and longer stretches.

yes, some times I hate myself for taking a motor to the river, but now when a kayaker says something stupid like "he can you roll those?" I don't even have to talk to them just bang out a roll and flip the switch.

MikeOC1 · Post by **MikeOC1** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:30 am

My impulse has pump, I have a new outrage havnt decided yet whether to put one in, but leaning toward a pump, I wanted to keep it nice and light but the pump is just so convenient.

oc1paddlr · Post by **oc1paddlr** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:27 am

many moons ago francis mallory and i were canoeing the ocoee when this yaker told us "those air bags are cheating, why not just get a kayak"..... I'd love a 4or 5 hundred $ lite model, but for now, gravity works for free,sept the time and wet feet. Perfect your skills, then get a pump, never, never be lazy or indifferent because your boat has a pump

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