righty no go lefty

yarnellboat · Post by **yarnellboat** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:45 pm

Bob, Bold move going for the backferry above this virtual mess!

Jan,

I'm assuming you are paddling right, using cross strokes to initiate a carve, and using power strokes on your onside (right), with an onside tilt, and, as shown, crossing the grain "paddling against the arc" to power left. Makes sense.

But earlier (Allan?), there was suggestion that this (with too much onside lean) might cause poor, virtual Larry to over-carve too far right/downstream, and not be making it far enough left?

Allan, why/when would it be advantageous for a righty crossing left to commit to all-offside strokes paddling against an offside/upstream tilt?

Crossing the grain and paddling against the (onside) arc as described seems like the normal approach. And, if you loose the carve, then using more cross-forward strokes to prevent spinning or slowing, I get that. But I don't think I get the offside arc that was recommended...

P.

Jan_dettmer · Post by **Jan_dettmer** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:23 pm

Pat,

I am not sure if I exactly understood what allan meant. I try to make it clearer what I meant.

The steeper the drop, the more important it is for me to paddle on dynamic lines.
Doing that, you use the momentum or energy of the riverfeatures and you will stay on top of the water.

Paddling in carves or arcs saves you momentum and energy. These are classic
creeking moves for me (I paddle right):
1) I am close to the right shore and have to nail a boof on the far left of the river. To get there I have to cut across the current. I do this by setting an angle almost direct towards the left shore, then a couple crossbows, then forward strokes as far forward as I can place them. Sometimes, I even start with a little bit of a draw component early in the stroke. I then put my right knee down, i.e. I lean into the slope (downhill). Depending on how agressive you have to do this move, you have to decide how much you tilt/lean.
The arc and strokes have to be timed so that you place the boof stroke at the lip at the end of the move and the arc needs to set you up for the right angle.

2) The other scenario is the other way round. Now I have to go to the RIGHT to boof. This is when you might want to use cross strokes. You start with a couple onsides, then a few cross strokes and once the carve locks in, you can keep going with onsides. Again, timing and judgement for the arc is everything.
In this scenario, I sometimes have the problem that its gets harder to reach for the water on you onside (since you are leaning downhill). Then the crossbows or crossboofs come in handy.

Of course, these are ideal descriptions but nontheless quite common.
The wilder / pushier the water gets, the more you might have to improvise and mix in some other strokes. That is pretty intuitive as far as my experience goes.
I totally agree with JFD that trim makes a big differnce. So does the hull.
The flatter the hull, the easier it is to stay on top of things and not get bogged down. The H3 should be very good at staying on top of things in big water.
It should also carve pretty agressive.

I think my bottom line was that dynamic lines are a good thing that help you
staying on top of the water, so you don't loose speed. And sometimes the water is so scary that it's kinda hard to commit to the off-side. That's a tough part that falls into the "head-game" category.

I forgot to say: Pretty important is also how you steer your tilt (i.e. edge-control) and how you "load" your boat by positioning your body. Most of the times it is easiest to retain control by loading the bow; but not always.

Pretty interesting discussion.
Cheers, Jan

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:07 am

thanks for all of the excellent advice everyone! much to think about...

aaron,
thanks for bringing THAT up! bastard

that is for sure a problem for me.. not so much what i was posting about, but something i need to work on none the less.
did you get that new hull set up? pauley & lavezola this weekend

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:14 am

Reverse ferry above "Death Slots"

I say Bob gets the "HE-MAN" award for even suggesting that move. You da man Bob, you da man

Jan_dettmer · Post by **Jan_dettmer** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 pm

Larry I will head to the Deer, Mill and Feather next week. We will be in Cali for 10 days. and run whatever has water. Hopefully I will se a C-boater down there.

Cheers, Jan

JFD · Post by **JFD** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:47 pm

Larry and Jan,
I will also be in california next week. we'll be doing generation/giant 2 day, middle fork feather 3 day, maybe deer creek, yuba, and hopefully some steep stuff as the water levels allow. hopefully we'll run into you. i'll be in a blue blunt c-1. not really sure how to get in touch out there, i don't have a cell phone.
jay

Larry Horne · Post by **Larry Horne** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:54 am

cool

i may be able to get a couple of days off in addition to the weekends, maybe we can get together on something. maybe some other local c-boaters can rally too. squeakleaf bruce aaron??

there is going to be plenty of water!
I for sure don't want to run the gap at 2500 cfs! 1000cfs is plenty for me.
i have not run the MFF yet and reeealy want to. but i'm gonna wait until late season when it's on it's way DOWN.
after all, this thread IS about my getting my butt spanked on big water isn't it !

no cell phone jay?
i'll get you my contact info.

Jan_dettmer · Post by **Jan_dettmer** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:54 am

Jay, thats cool.
I'll be in a green Nomad 8.5.
I'll be with two friends in Kayaks, one a red micro and one a m3.
We'll most likely drive a 1972 Volvo station wagon that looks kinda beaten up.

If Deer and Mill are not up, we'll do some creeking in the sacramento Valley and Feather.

Cheers, Jan