Finkenmeister Review

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:56 am

It's early yet for a review, but I do have some impressions I'd like to share from my first Finkenmeister run, and my first run of the season.

Larry Horne and I ran the Edwards to Purdons section of the South Fork of the Yuba at 500 cfs. This is a 4 mile class 3-4 at that level. Really a fun run, fluid not boney, technical with lots of eddies to catch, fairly continuous, not pushy. This was a good level to introduce myself to the MasterFink. Larry was paddling a recently acquired Pyranha H3 255 which he loves. That boat was my second choice if I couldn't get my hands on a Fink, so it was an education for me watching him move it confidently around the river.

Positives:
Secondary stability is excellent. You can lean it on edge easily.
Dynamic stability is very good. Once the boat is moving, its stability improves dramatically.
The Fink feels stable and is predictable in turbulent water. Te big test will come later in a higher volume river.
Very comfortable.
I didn't miss the thigh straps. In fact, it's better without them - far easier to enter and exit the boat. The big hip braces help hold you in the boat and push you forward into the big knee cups. i had no problem staying in the boat while rolling.
Boofs exceptionally well. The bow rises easily to the surface if entry angle is too steep. It doesn't back up into the hole.
Relatively fast for a short boat.
Ferries well on offside and onside. Just lean it and the hard chines really work to track the boat.
Punches small holes well. Again, the real test will come on a higher volume river.
Spins easily when flat.
Great eddy-catcher.

Negatives:
Primary stability is not good

.
My knees are deep but not wide enough for my liking. I'm going to try and get another 2" of knee width by altering the outfitting.
Harder to roll than my Stikine. But what goes down easy, comes up easy.

When I first got in the boat, the poor primary stability gave me the jitters

. Then I leaned it on edge and breathed a sigh of relief. The secondary would give me time to react. Keep it on edge slightly and it would probably be OK. All said, I had one combat roll after hitting a rock. Felt fairly solid overall. I'm looking forward to my next Fink run

. We'll see if I can iron out some wrinkles.

SYOTR,
Bruce of CA

Paolo · Post by **Paolo** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:13 am

Bruce, what do you think about the tail shape?
What is puzzling me about the Fink is the tail that's too narrow I think. I think a C1 work better if has the wider point behind the cp not in front of...
I think that's the reason of the lack in primary stability.
What do you think about?

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:22 pm

Paolo,

I personally don't think that the shape of the FM tail is to blame for the primary stability.
The pictures of the Finkenmeister do somehow not quite show it's exact shape.
The waterline width of the boat is actually, particularly in flat water virtually constant in the center over about 50% of its length.
So I can't really see why that would affect the primary stability, especially since most people seem to have problems with that already in flat water.
I think the main reason of it's relatively low primary stability is the fact that the widt at the bottom is only around 22 to 23 inches, together with the tall 9 inch factory saddle.
On the other hand this relatively narrow bottow width together with the wide deck leads to a significant amount of flare in the sides, which leads IMHO to it's great secondary stability.
The limited primary stability does not bother me (as I paddle a Prelude as open boat), but if it was, I would lower the saddle by one or 2 inches. This way I just enjoy the great comfort...

I think the shape of it's tail is largely responsible for the great speed and tracking.

martin

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:49 am

Paolo,
The tail probably doesn't account for the relatively small primary stability. As Martin pointed out, the bottom of the boat is not that wide from chine to chine, I measured 19". That seems to be the cause.
My guess is the narrow tail is designed for several reasons: 1) reduce tendency to stern-ender the boat at the bottom of a steep drop, 2) can be used to help track the boat when boat is placed on edge, and 3) gives you some hope of pulling out of a hole if you can sink the tail.
It would be good to hear from Thomas Fink on this one.
SYOTR,
Bruce

Paolo · Post by **Paolo** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:44 pm

Thanks for your poin of view.

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:30 am

Hello Boise Bob,
What do you think about the Fink so far? You mentioned that primary stability would be a major consideration for you to keep yourself upright on NF Payette et.al. Have you discounted the Fink or thinking about it? What are you paddling right now?
SYOTR,
Bruce

CosmikDebris · Post by **CosmikDebris** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:57 pm

9" Saddle ?!?!?!!!!! Wow, I have like a 5" saddle! I bet that thing is unstable. I had a 6-7" saddle in my XXX and it was crazy unstable! And it's 24.5" wide!

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:14 am

After a wobbly play session at the Reno, NV whitewater park

I have made a decision to cut my Fink saddle (seat) down from ~8.5" to 7.5". That's measured from the bottom of the plastic hull to the front, top of the minicell seat. Let's see what a difference that makes.
SYOTR,
Bruce

Boise Bob · Post by **Boise Bob** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:56 pm

Bruce,

I'm getting very encouraged by all the reviews.

Keep those Fink reviews coming. If I remember correctly, both you and Martin are of similar size to me...6' 185lbs.

All reviewers, it would be helpful to know what is your current boat to get a better context of how similar / different the Fink is to your normal ride.

It's funny to hear you call the Fink short, since it's only 3" shorter, 2" wider, and 4 Gallons lower in volume than the Stikine.

I'm very suprised about the 9" saddle height. My first conversion was a Wavesport Z and I used a dagger insert. I believe comes with a 7" saddle height, which I found a bit tippy and unstable. I cut it down to 6" and found a HUGE increase in stability.

You, Peter, and Matt's reviews are very helpful. Scott, if you try Peter's Fink, your impressions would be another data point for us all.

the great gonzo · Post by **the great gonzo** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:58 pm

CosmikDebris, yes, the bottom of the boat is narrow, but it has a lot of flare, which is what gives it great secondary stability. I tried out a XXX with a 6 or 7 inch saddle, and that thing had, despit a bottom with of 24.5 inches, about similar primary and way less secondary stability than my FM with the unmodified 9 inch saddle. I think stability is not only a function of bottom widh of the hull and saddle height, but has also a lot to do with hull shape.

Bob, I have really no problems personally coping with the 9 inch saddle, this is probably due to the fact that I paddle a lot in my Prelude, which is not exactly known for having a lot of primary stability, either. But I personally prefer that, for riverrunning at least, over lets say my Delirious which has more primary stability, but becomes very edgy when on edge.
I very rarely have my FM flat in the water, unless I am spinning or surfing, usually I have it always somewhat on edge, where it settles down nicely.

As far as the roll is concerned, make sure your fit is tight and practice a little on flat water.
I just did my first run of the year yesterday and my roll was very solid, as good as in any of my other boats.

martin

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:14 am

Boise Bob,
I'm 5'8" and 155 lbs.
What boat are you thinking of replacing with the Fink?
SYOTR,
Bruce

Boise Bob · Post by **Boise Bob** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:45 pm

I am adding to the fleet. I have a Wavesport Z and Robson NRG.

Learning from this forum, it seems the H2/3 Zone is a decent boat alternative for big & pushy water. The Fink becoming available is interesting because it's designed as a C1 and my hopes are it delivers better stability and speed than the conversion choices.

Bob

Bruce Farrenkopf · Post by **Bruce Farrenkopf** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 4:55 am

I had the Fink out on the North Fork American, Chamberlain Falls section at 1000cfs. This was bigger water than my last two trips. I had cut the seat down to 7.5" from the plastic hull to the top of the pedestal, trimming about an inch off the seat height. It made a positive difference. Although the primary stability remains less than I would like, it is much better than it was. I'd like to trim another 1/2 inch off. Sitting lower in the boat also seemed to allow me to move my knees deeper into the knee cups and I was better able to work my thighs in controlling the boat.
I'm also got pulled into a very nasty hole in the center of Bogus Thunder and had a turbulent ride upside down and out of it.

I was able to keep myself firmly in the boat without thigh straps and rolled up OK. That was comforting. So I'm convinced that thigh straps are unnecessary in this boat and am happy with the clever cockpit design.
Another plus of having no thigh straps in the Fink: you can move yourself off and on the pedestal to increase comfort or improve control depending on the situation, while the spray skirt is ON. This means you can lower the seat to what would have previously been an uncomfortable height. When you get uncomfortable, just raise your butt an inch off the seat. No need to release your skirt to loosen the thigh straps. When things get hairy just scrunch back down deep into the boat. Nice.
SYOTR,
Bruce

Alden · Post by **Alden** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:11 am

Question:
Does anyone in New England have a Fink??? Don?
Alden

Alden · Post by **Alden** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:12 am

Yahoooo! I'm finally a "pain boater"!!! yeahhhhh!

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Finkenmeister Review

Finkenmeister Review

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