L'EDGE QUESTION/CONCERN..(edited for content to page 2)

[Louie]

Jeff and Phill read my post. It said it wasn't as fast as a Prelude, I didn't say it was faster than a Skeeter, I said "as" fast as a Skeeter not faster. I only have one Gauley Trip and three Ocoee trip in the Ledge but You two have only had one or two rapids in the Ledge and if the truth were known I don't you all even ran a rapid but just ferried from one side of Second helping to the other. Five minute in a boat, even one as good and stable as the Ledge doesn't let you get to know the boat.



.. except for maybe the Quake... which was changed and reintroduced so many times -.

OK Photon let examine this little jewel above you threw out.... How many times was the Quake intoroduced? How many modle of the Quake were there? Which modle was the final one? Now I only worked at Dagger two year in which the Quake was designed and came out, so I did get in on a couple of design sessions, a few mold reviews and welded the ear on the five molds. OOPs I answere the question for you. Yes there were fives different models. Version one only one made it is still at my house, version two only one made and I don't know where it is. Version three only one molded ( hope someone burnt it) Version four only one made (I have it and still use it). Now version five is the production model and was the only version introduced. Except for Joe Langman, steve Scroborought, Bailey and myself I don't know anyone who has paddled anything but the Version five.

How fast is one of those flys full of water?

Now below is what the Yankee says and the first one is what I have said from the first time I paddled it. We also need to remember except for Dooley's Green trip in it most people I know have only used it on the Ocoee and the Gauley and as a creek boat it has done fine on both.

#1 It's more stable... which means most people will spend more time focusing on the river and actually paddling forward than they are bracing and correcting.
#2 It's far drier than anything on Louie's list (in my opinion at least) which to me translates to less time spent on the side of the river dumping water out of the boat... which also means "faster" if we're racing.


If I were doin a rapid as long and as big as Lost paddle and it had no eddies, I would be able to get stoped by a wave /hole and not fill up in the Ledge, I would be gunnel to gunnel in any of the flys now after hittin the first Wave/hole and the fly fills up and ledge don't lets see which one is faster reaccelerating and I sure are goin to get to the bottom faster cause I don't have to stop and dump. I know cause I have the above mention type of rapids in both boats.

Standing offer to Dick and Phill my boat is ready for both of you to use on the Ocoee and I will paddle either Dick Skeeter of Phills Fly, I don't mind usin an infearier just to get you two in somethin good that was designed since the century has changed. I have the saw blades in my pocket and part of the deck come off my boat tonight.

[philcanoe]

As for objectivity and time in the boat...

No, I have not run a complete river in this boat. But what I have done is make a couple runs down the ASCI course at slalom nationals. Which is a more objective concrete head to head evaluation, based upon verifiable criteria. It was made after a couple days of running several different boats down the same course and near identical path... And in the minds of most people, certainly qualifies as multiple rapids back to back.

[horizongfx]

all I can add is the
L'edge is every bit the boat I hoped it would be

[Louie]

GOT YOU a two hundred yard man made course is the same as a river.

I nwever knew you were were runnin for a spot on The American kayaker BOD.




HOwever the question I am sure everyone wants an answer too is how much I paid for my boat. Well so far not a penny. the boss said we would talk the next time we were together. Of course with a wife and six kids ( another subject I am sure you some views on, but like the Ledge no real exsperience) it ain't what it cost it is how much are the monthly payment. Do I work for Esquif? hades ya. do I endorse every boat they come out with, well much to my bosses dislike the answer to that is no. (please see the thread about the Raven). When I was in the Zoom I said it was a hellva boat for a hellva paddler, but you had to be on top of it the whole time. The Teaurea, i said it was the best out there at the time for Creekin, not the easiest to roll, but the best boofer and the driest. so you can say I am pushin the Ledge because I work for Esquif but if I didn't like it I would have asked for a Teaurea.

So Phill you keep cuttin holes in the side of your boats and i will keep paddlin new designs ( all the way down different rivers) and tell what I think is the truth.

[adamin]

Things have been edited for language and personal attacks to this point.

Discussion is now open again, albeit with less participants.

[karstmaninaboat]

Perhaps it is my size but, I paddle lots of flat water on the Hiwassee and my Ledge (that I paid for) has more hull speed than my Esquif Spanish Fly (that I paid for).

It aint no Ocoee, but it aint slow like my fly either.

[Smurfwarrior]

What size are you?

[philcanoe]

Speed is also nimbleness, responsiveness, spinning, handling... it is also a function of rocker and wetted area. If you float deeper in one boat than another, there's a good chance it will be slower (all other things remaining constant). Same exact thing with a wider boat. Speed will greatly depend on the wetted area; however there is a definite correlation with narrowness of a hull. You only have to look at a downriver or wildwater boat to see what is fastest. And btw they typically ride deeper, but generally have a less wetted surface area. Drag is also part of the equation... so it affects a new hull less than a older (more worn) one. There is also flexation of the hull. There is also a vast difference in the depth of water, you may be traveling in.... You will most likely go way faster in 2 feet of water than in 9 inches. So it's really hard to say absolutely, without controlling all variables.

My statement (as previously stated) was based upon controlling a great number of these variables.... but perhaps even more importantly it was discretely mentioned to me by several (more than two) actual L'edge owners.

And once again I'll repeat.. This is a very good boat for many many people... and would be great when combined with owning a quicker-more responsive boat. For whitewater overnighters it would excel.


And on a side note -

I'm sure most of you will agree - the whole hoopla surrounding this post has been much ado about nothing.
The question was astutely brought up, and I merely felt the time for a honeymoon was over.

[Sir Adam]

Only because several hundred characters from 3 posters were deleted....

[Craig Smerda]

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf# ... 2790377037

fwiw... what both of them had to say have validity... in the mean time let's go boatin' folks!

[PAC]

... what both of them had to say have validity... in the mean time let's go boatin' folks!

Ahmen to that!!!!! Now if we only had water!

[Sir Adam]

It's been raining on and off here for a few days...

and our next system (Wed night / Thursday) is projected to dump up to 4" of rain.... let's hope it happens!

I hope one of these days to check out a L'Edge - looks like a real nice boat Craig, though a bit heavier than I personally like (which is why I usually stick to glass:) )

[horizongfx]

(which is why I usually stick to glass:) )

If they made Glass Boats that would stand up to the arse whippin I'm gonna give my L'edge I own several !

[Sir Adam]

If I creeked more, or we had chert in the rocks vs. ancient granite, I'd likely boat more plastic too.

I try to avoid the rocks. They are hard.

[kanur]

Kelvin,

Rest assured the L'Edge is a high performance boat (one of the best OCers in the world has confirmed that in his review of the boat on this site) and the width should not be a problem for you.

As for as boats in it's class (Quake, Skeeter, Flys, Prelude, Teareau) as far as speed is concerned (speed being relative) you can compare it to the top ten finishers in a Nascar race, there is not much difference, it's mostly the driver.

I have owned and paddled a lot, all of these boats except the Teareau,( never paddled one more than a test spin at a play spot) and I find the L'Edge best of all. It is like cheating. The S Fly is very good but it is just butt ugly and very wet. I chose to paddle the less stable but just as high performance Prelude because it looked like a canoe. With the L'Edge I can get the performance and stability of a fly with the good looks and dryness of a traditional canoe.

After trying it, it may not be the boat for you but it is no less high performance than anything in it's class.

Have fun deciding for your self