Mad River ME specs?

[lanky189]

I'm beginning the outfitting of my ME, can't find specs anywhere about width, other than 33", but its an asymmetrical hull, so where is it 33? where is it anything else?

Any and all help is welcome,

Thanks,
Matthew

[foofooboy]

Try here. http://www.madrivercanoe.com/pages/inde ... d_catalogs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[pblanc]

Mad River listed a gunwale width of 30" for the ME.

[ezwater]

I didn't think the ME was asymmetrical. The MR Synergy is a similar boat, and is very asymmetrical.

Maybe Kaz will know as he makes MEs in composite form.

[Sir Adam]

Or here:

http://www.cboats.net/c_db/list.php?typ ... 21&name=ME" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We don't have all the stats for all boats, but we do have a few for the ME...

[pblanc]

I'm not sure about the accuracy of those stats. The MRC catalog lists length overall at 15' 2" and maximum beam at the gunwales at 30". I think that MRC usually listed molded beam at the shear line, so if someone measured an ME from outside of gunwale to outside of gunwale and got 32" it would correspond well with a molded beam of 30". The rocker was listed at 8" and the center depth 15" with a height of 24" at both stems.

The ME looks symmetrical to my eye as well, but my eye is not too sensitive to mild degrees of asymmetry below the water line. The MRC catalog does describe the hull configuration as being asymmetrical, though.

[Sir Adam]

The majority (almost all in actuality) of the C Boat stats (not converted boat stats) are derived from marketing literature, the companies websites, or the designers themselves.

IIRC the ME info was from John Berry or John Sweet, but I may not be recalling correctly - it was 8-10 years ago or so that we expanded the database to include open as well as decked boats.

I'm not disagreeing with you, mind you, just stating where the information was from.

[hazardharry]

http://youtu.be/4G2ZsXNjEHk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lanky189]

Thanks for the info, but I am still left wondering about widths where the thwarts were installed. Thats my primary concern as I want to preserve the original shape. I had originally assumed a symmetrical hull as well, but we know assuming does...

[Sir Adam]

From what has been stated I'd say there is a good chance that the width is 30" inside to inside.

I suspect there is some variance, especially with some of the old racing kevlar / glass versions.

[ezwater]

Just went through the MR catalog archive. I didn't see a statement as to symmetry when the ME first appeared.

In 1983, a Kevlar ME was offered. Its width at the gunwales was said to be 30", while that of the Royalex version was said to be 33".

In 1986, both the Kevlar and Royalex versions were described, and said to be "asymmetrical." The gunwale widths were quoted as 30" and 33", as before.

As a race boat inspector, I saw a number of Royalex MEs and a few in Kevlar, and none impressed me as "asymmetrical." If there is an asymmetry, it is a whole lot less than that in my MR Synergy.

Sometimes a hull gets called "asymmetrical" only because the bow is cut higher than the stern. In my Synergy, the stern is cut higher, and rockered higher, than the bow. For the rest, one lays a boat on its side and one looks inside to see if the inner footprint of the boat's bottom is wider at one end or the other. Or, one looks at the rocker from the side. Measuring the gunwales may not mean much, especially if a previous owner has been messing with the thwarts.

MR says they sold the ME with one thwart installed at the center. I would take that literally. Two other thwarts were included for the owner to install where desired.

The 33" for Royalex is probably the measurement at the outside of the gunwales. I recommend pulling that in about an inch for comfort, more if the hull seems willing. I would let the hull "sit" where it wants and then install the other thwarts where you want them. If you will paddle it solo, you could imitate the Synergy and squeeze the bow just a teensy bit, leaving the stern wider. If you use it tandem, I would set the bow width wider, but without forcing the hull. Just let the hull tell you where it is happy as far as bow and stern width.

Thwarts can always be moved. You aren't wedded to any one thwart setup, and considering that MR didn't install all thwarts, there is not a "factory" setting. My Synergy came with 4 thwarts, installed, and I think I've moved at least three of them.

[ezwater]

The image is borrowed from Phillip applephone. Thanks, Phil. It was in the thread:

viewtopic.php?t=7964794" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;





This ME does not look asymmetrical to me, but your vision may vary.

Interesting features: Note that the bottom is a shallow V, not a shallow arch. The zones just outside the peak of the V are fairly flat. This is similar to the MR Guide Solo, also a very shallow V, though the Guide may have less rocker near the midpoint of the boat.

By contrast, the MR Synergy is shallow arch through its center, but has a very shallow V, almost a token Mad River V, toward the bow. I think the chines on the ME are just a bit sharper than those on the Synergy.

The MR Guide Solo, though not otherwise agile, is outstanding at "flying" ferries across strong currents. The Synergy is mediocre, because it is too round. The boat doesn't have enough "lift." I would bet that the ME is better at ferrying than the Synergy, though not quite as good as the Guide Solo.

Note the sharpish ends on the ME. The Synergy is much blunter. A friend's old ME careened downhill at Chicken Coop Gap, hit a tree head on, and that sharp end split in a ragged fashion from top to bottom. Brittle from old age and a cold morning.

[lanky189]

MR says they sold the ME with one thwart installed at the center. I would take that literally. Two other thwarts were included for the owner to install where desired.

The 33" for Royalex is probably the measurement at the outside of the gunwales. I recommend pulling that in about an inch for comfort, more if the hull seems willing. I would let the hull "sit" where it wants and then install the other thwarts where you want them. If you will paddle it solo, you could imitate the Synergy and squeeze the bow just a teensy bit, leaving the stern wider. If you use it tandem, I would set the bow width wider, but without forcing the hull. Just let the hull tell you where it is happy as far as bow and stern width.

Thwarts can always be moved. You aren't wedded to any one thwart setup, and considering that MR didn't install all thwarts, there is not a "factory" setting. My Synergy came with 4 thwarts, installed, and I think I've moved at least three of them.

Thank you! This is what my thoughts were, but I was not sure.
What is the benefit of a tighter bow vs fatter stern for a solo paddler?

All replies are greatly appreciated btw, nothing worse than feeling ignored when you have no idea what to do next.

I will be documenting my measurements and pics along the way.

This is starting to come together in my mind a lot better now.

[pblanc]

Boats that have a greater underwater volume or displacement aft of the longitudinal midpoint are said to be "swedeform" and are sometimes also referred to as "Delta hulls". Most racing boats are like that because they tend to generate less wave making resistance at the water's surface. If the boat was completely submerged, it would be different. Submarines and fish have greater volume displacement forward of the longitudinal midpoint, and are "fishform".

But tinkering a little with your thwart lengths is unlikely to change the longitudinal center of buoyancy of your boat much so I wouldn't worry about it. Having the bow thwart pull the gunwales in a tad will reduce the flare of the hull up front and make the boat run a little wetter, but the ME is a pretty big boat when paddled solo so that probably wouldn't be so bad. Having the spread of the gunwales in front of the paddler a little narrower can make crossing over for cross strokes quite a bit easier though, and even makes it easier to achieve a vertical paddle shaft for your onside forward strokes.

If you want to keep your boat as the designer intended, first decide just how wide it should be at the gunwales amidships. Obviously, that is going to be somewhere in the 30 - 33" range. Personally I would aim for the lower number if the boat is to be used solo. Get a stick or piece of furring strip and cut it to the appropriate length to use as a spreader bar and put it right under your inwales amidships to maintain that chosen beam, then decide where you want to mount your thwarts and measure from the inside of the hull straight across to the other side at that point.

If you remove all the thwarts/yokes from a canoe, many will collapse inward an inch or two so if you just measure the hull with no spreader bar you might wind up with thwarts a little too short.

[kaz]

Asymmetrical could mean anything. If for some reason you really need to know if the waterline width is asymmetrical, measure the width of the boat at the imaginary 4" waterline fore and aft of the centerline, using that as a reference point.