What would make slalom racing more appealing to you?

[FullGnarlzOC]

With my experience at Dog Days Slalom race, which apparently was there best turn out - there were about 5-6 OCers per class for the mens...

You really can't seperate into 'skill levels' - it thins the classes out to much I think. Instead - each and everyone should know - that local races are for fun, and see how you do against people that are as good as you.

As far as the 10 second rule... I love it - with that being said, I agree with Jeremy - dropping that down to a more manageable 5 seconds would encourage more 110% paddling.

[Longboatin]

ditto on havin at least some practice gates setup so that boaters could workout. i have only raced slalom four times in my life, and would like to have some practice gates, cuz whackin gates sux.

I'm contemplating setting up a few gates, but I wonder is there any issue with multiuse on a waterway? Like fisherman, other boaters, land owners etc.

[h2sk1]

From a spectator standpoint, the 10 second penalty has to go. It's not very exciting to watch the top paddlers stop paddling, watch the stern of the boat go through the gate, then start paddling again.

One thing that has been tried on a limited number of races in this region (NA Championships on Gull River a few years back) was to occasionally raise one or both poles to allow some part of the boat to sneak underneath. This has a big advantage in my opinion for both the novice and advanced racer. For the novice, your line doesn't have to be perfect -- just get your body and half the boat through the gate. For the advanced, it allows faster lines, and less stop/start that Rodeo Clown alludes to. This opens up course designs that are closer to kayak, and makes things much more fluid for the tandem class as well.

I'm not talking every gate, but strategically on offsets or upstream gates.

From a competitors point of view, the myriad of classes is bordering on absurd. I know everyone wants to race as much as possible, by it is quite confusing and people don't realize when signing up that you can put a regular, long royalex boat into the glass class. You'd have no chance of winning, but at least you can race in more than one class. For the veterans, this is well known, but I know the first events I went to, it seemed like the 'pros' would be coming down the course every 5 minutes, simply because they knew they could enter in tonnes of classes.

From an organizer point of view, I assume these large number of classes is an organizational nightmare. I haven't run an event, but can only imagine the headaches of scheduling so many classes and trying to minimize conflict. Maybe reduce the classes, but allow more practice runs?

[FullGnarlzOC]

taking the first step - http://www.ccghpa.com/boards_new/index.php?topic=1361.0

Clear to me, more so than anything else - growth is closely related to accessibility. Time to start pushing through local clubs.


w/ what h2 said - having raised poles in certain spots made a big difference in the race last weekend...allows for more strategic moves.

[Creeker]

Eddy McSlalom

[PAC]

SOoooooo Who will be at Riversport next weekend? Good time and place to think and discuss this "boat to gate"?

[gumpy]

still gotta find out about work, but i'd like to compete & hang out, maybe catch an UY run...i'd like to get some other eastern PA boaters out too.

[John Coraor]

I really believe it would be helpful, if the overriding ACA rules would recommend that those experienced should stay out of recreational level classes. Or even BETTER begin to enforce a top level structure (Experienced, Pro, or RACE) for these guys to only complete in. In this manner a beginner could test themselves against each other, while at the same time start building confidence, experience, and camaraderie.

Most beginner and intermediate level slalom races in the Northeast and Middles States regions have for several decades had a rule that paddlers can only race in both the "REC" classes and the regular race classes (i.e. for slalom boats) if they use the same "REC" boat for both classes. As you can imagine, this rule was created to encourage recreational whitewater paddlers to compete using their standard river runner instead of specialized equipment, but it was created back when standard river runners were generally long enough to also meet the slalom dimensional requirements to actually compete in both classes. At that time, a serious, experienced racer would not be competitive in the race classes when using a "REC" boat and thus the rule reserved this class for true recreational paddlers. It also avoided the whole murky quandry about how you rank paddlers according to experience if your were to divide classes by paddler experience instead of by boat type.

Now that "REC" boats are often shorter than slalom boats and slalom races are no longer well attended, you often find that this rule is no longer enforced. The lack of enforcement doesn't stem from any change in wanting to encourage participation by recreational paddlers. Instead it comes from a new reality - there are so few people racing slalom that race organizers are happy to have anyone sign-up for multiple classes, even if they fail to conform to the old rule about using their "REC" boat for all classes.

Ironically, some newer "REC" boats (e.g. the Spark) are actually faster than the latest slalom-legal designs due to being shorter, so a "REC" boater, if allowed to paddle in race classes, could potentially beat racers in slalom boats.

However, I have to agree with Phil that non-enforcement of the old rule regarding use of the same "REC" boat for both race and REC classes has opened the door to racers competing in the "REC" class. If competition by such "ringers" is truly a barrier to recreational boaters giving slalom a try, then perhaps it is time to enforce the old rule.

However, it would be nice to find a way for racers to still compete in an additional class without going head-to-head with recreational boaters. I know that in the New England Slalom Series (NESS) races, there are several paddlers that currently violate this old rule but whom no one would accuse of being "hot slalom racers." They are instead middle-aged weekend warriors who got into racing in their recreational boats and then eventually bought a slalom legal boat so that they could compete in race classes as well.

John

[yarnellboat]

Anywhere that there's a handful of OCs that would try slalom, somebody should organize an event.

As we can see, there's flexibility in how you could count penalities, how you set the gates, and what classes you have. The important thing is to create a meeting place for OCs and have a fun event that encourages paddling and the improvement of paddling.

In fact, if there's no gates to be had, get creative and organize a different event that rewards precision, and incorporate as much of slalom as possible - a poker run, obstacle course, scavenger hunt, dry-boat race, whatever. Lack of good ww isn't even an excuse - gates and competition can make any current a challenge.

Get creative, but start any kind of OC event if you can, even if it only starts with 10 of your friends. I hope the T50 race and webpage can provide some example/inspiration.

http://www3.telus.net/~soloboat/rules.html

If I can start a slalom race, anyone can. Seriously. The 4th annual T50 this Sept will be my 5th time trying gates, and I've paddled only 2 days this summer (maybe one more this weekend!) - it's more about community than competition or even competence or commitment.

Build it and they will come!

Pat.

[doomroller]

I agree that more women would really help. I remember going to races with lot's of chicks as a younger lad.

I saw Gnarlz Girl at the Dog Days, but no paddling.....come on Tommy, get her in a boat.....and a bikini.

Still luv 10 second penalties. You still paddle fast, and also really care if you hit a gate. There are moves with an open boat the a 5 second penalty would determine that bailing on the move and hitting the gate is better.

[FullGnarlzOC]

"Still luv 10 second penalties. You still paddle fast, and also really care if you hit a gate. There are moves with an open boat the a 5 second penalty would determine that bailing on the move and hitting the gate is better."

Agree with you there.


GnarlzGirl has come a long way thus far. I have been working on her & boating rather steady for the last year. She's gonna shred the Lower Yough with me tomorrow as well as Mom and Dad. I believe Wayne is riding out with us as well to huck the falls in a canoe and paddle with us. Gnarlzgirl will most likely be in a bikini tomorrow, o baby. Hopefully I'll see some of you guys out there!

[phreon]

What would do it for me?

A place to practice in day trip range. Or short weekend range. Preferably where I'm free to screw up relatively unnoticed.

I have no clue where the nearest club is. Around here, it seems like kayakers outnumber canoeists about 1500:1.

I own a single "whitewater capable" OC-1. Were it to break a class rule, I'd be eliminated before starting. Is there a "run what ya brung, rank amateur, semi-old fart" class?

Information is the biggest key. I don't know the rules, classes, where I could find instruction, practice, or even what the sport is truly about beyond that it appears to be eddy hopping and attaining through gates with precision. All the "day range" events I'm aware of are river floats, recreational downriver races or part of triathlons.

Doug

[arhdc]

If it helps at all, here are my impressions as a sub-rank amateur canoe slalom racer who attended the Dog Days race and practice day (I didn't race, I drew the short straw so I kid chased wile my wife raced). The Dog Days race was a fun event and for the most part every class was open to the "run what ya brought old fart" types if your boat came anywhere close to being what was expected. An example was my Stinkeye was raced by a local kayaker friend and she took 3rd. She was not a canoeist by any means, my Stinkeye is almost as un-slalom canoe as is imaginable (a blackfly would be worse, oh, and Tommy's Maxum) but she was still able to come and borrow a boat on race day to have fun. There was a guy in a Jackson Allstar, the girl that raced a VERY speedy Esquif Detonator, Tommy (aka FullGnarlzOC) in his Maxum and a a guy with an impressive white beard in a Dagger Mamba.

Not every slalom race is like this but there are some that are, I think that the upcoming Riversoprt Race is very fun and approachable.

SO my $0.02 as someone who is still not a slalom racer (I did run the course a few times on practice day), canoe slalom just needs better PR to convince people to actually come out and TRY IT. It is fun, there are races that are not about a perfect racer and there are races that you you can bring whatever you have and race it.

Aaron

[TheKrikkitWars]

There is no OC slalom in the UK (and hasn't been since the late 50's), so this is a little academic to me, But I'd agree with Jeremy and Jommy on reducing the touch penalty (I'd go for 2 seconds), condensing the boat classes (possibly allowing a shortening of race boats) and possibly move to using 1 pole gates like the ICF rulebook.

The one thing that would really make me think about OC slalom would be slaloms on harder whitewater, where it's all about dynamic moves and non-stop paddling (If you've seen the new 2012 olympic course, or the bejing course and it's close model Dutch Water Dreams you'll understand what I mean by harder whitewater, steep and feature dense), no less finesse required (arguably more) but actually good to watch and fun to do.
However, such a change would create races in which the longer, older boat classes were no longer competitive (and possibly no-longer capable if that idea of mine was fully realises) and the length of the ideal race boat would shorten until boats like the spark were more the norm.

Ultimately, Open Canoe Slalom seems to have stagnated and lost its way (not unlike Open Canoe Freestyle) not least because it's hung on to the old paradigms about how one traverses a whitewater rapid for far too long (and [this is where the similarity with OC freestyle is most striking] to the notion that people will follow the spirit rather than the letter of the rules, even when its the difference between being a winner, and losing a fairer competition) to the point that many classes are totally out of touch with both decked slalom, and the way one normally paddles in an open boat on whitewater these days.

I hope that's not to iconoclastic, but that's how i see it.

[kaz]

Lots of good comments. It's nice that folks here aren't afraid to speak up and voice their opinions.
I personally feel that it's time we tried OC slalom racing with 5 second gate penalties. Try it for a year. If it doesn't work out, go back to 10. Simple, right? Wouldn't it be fun to actually try to paddle as fast as you can through a race course without watching if your stern is going to hit a gate? I watch some racers take up to 10 seconds to try to clean a gate, and it's all because of the 10 second penalty. Nobody wants a penalty.
I also think classes need to be condensed. Sure it's great to race as many classes as you can at Nationals. But as someone said, it's pretty confusing to spectators watching the same people go down the course over and aver again. Do we care what spectators think of us? Yes. We need there support. Some of them might even want to try racing someday.
keep in mind theses are strictly my opinions. Some people say "Kaz, you don't even race anymore, your thoughts don't really matter." Now, I might be chastised by some for expressing my viewpoints, heck, I'll be chastised for saying that I might be chastised! We'll see.
regards,
John Kaz....