Creek outfitting

[Larry Horne]

Krikkitwars you win!
...looks like i need to work on my "sweet spot" a little more

I got a serious spanking today on my local class four creek that I've run a million times.
Water was high, and I was, as usual, a little cocky on my home run.
So, I got off line and went under a little overhanging branch near the top of the biggest rapid (4+- easy class 5 at this level), got flipped and that started a lovely chain of three back to back to back flips and rolls (dropping directly into the next holes of course). The last hole decided to keep me for some rodeo fun. After a good trashing in there, I finally flushed out and tried to roll, but my buddy was on top of me. I guess my helmet banging on the bottom of his boat bothered him so after a couple of tries he got away from me.
There was ABSOLUTELY no way i was going to swim 'cause there was still a long manky chute waiting directly below.. I was getting loose after the trashings and knew it. So, I focused, took my time and executed the perfect roll, except for the fact that I slid back off my saddle and fell out of the frikin boat!
The swim was luckily no big deal. Got myself on a rock and my buddies got my boat in short order.
All I could think of was you, and my post in this thread! it was some kind of instant karma
First swim of the year (at this rate...it's gonna be a long one). First involuntary swim since I had an atom many years ago.
So yeah, i think I'm gonna work on my setup a little tonight

[Bruce Farrenkopf]

Which way to outfit your boat is a very personal decision. You need to know yourself. How do I react in a critical situation? Do I always react in the correct prescribed way? Do I have a bombproof roll? If you are always calm and deliberate when taking a thrashing in a difficult rapid and can reach down to unclip one or two or three pieces to exit the boat, then perhaps you can get away with a super tight setup (non-wiggle exit).

There needs to be consideration of Murphy's Law, Corallary #1157, I think it is. "The worst thing will go wrong at the worst possible time. Corallary#1157: In your own backyard rapid during high water in the winter, you will swim and smash into rocks upside down and get stuck in your boat if you can't wiggle free" Yeah I think I remember that one clearly.

Know thyself and know Murphy's Law.

Super tight setups will work well until they don't. Then you are up the creek without oxygen.

I apologize for sounding a bit grim .

SYOTR,

Bruce

[Larry Horne]

good one bruce.
I'm still gonna move my straps a smidge.
...in search of the sweetspot

[oopsiflipped]

and my outiftting is now broken again. what i thought was perfect has become crap. bolts and fender washers pulled through seat rail and painstakingly shaped aluminum anchors are now bent all the crap. aargh. really the only problem with c1ing is that you can't just buy a freakin c1.

[marclamenace]

three back to back to back flips and rolls (dropping directly into the next holes of course). The last hole decided to keep me for some rodeo fun. After a good trashing in there, I finally flushed out and tried to roll, but my buddy was on top of me. I guess my helmet banging on the bottom of his boat bothered him so after a couple of tries he got away from me.
There was ABSOLUTELY no way i was going to swim 'cause there was still a long manky chute waiting directly below.. I was getting loose after the trashings and knew it. So, I focused, took my time and executed the perfect roll, except for the fact that I slid back off my saddle and fell out of the frikin boat!

Larry you just made my day. That was hilarious; good job at trying to compensate for the lack of a video there. But next time we want to see it!

More seriously, IMHO a good outfit should be thight enough to allow for a couple of roll attempts / recirculating in a hole but still let you exit when you want it by pushing hard enough. Some boaters may rely on their quick release buckle but everybody knows sometimes you may just not be able to pull it.

After such a funky time maybe you just deserved to swim?

First involuntary swim since I had an atom many years ago.

See? It's not so bad after all!

So yeah, I am with bruce on that one. Gotta love the wiggle option even though it has its downside.

Keep safe everyone!

[jrsh92]

First involuntary swim since I had an atom many years ago.

Hey, the Atom's outfitting's fine!
... if you add a lapbelt to it...
It's a little bit funny that they bothered to mass produce that boat but clearly didn't bother to design some outfitting that worked with it

[TheKrikkitWars]

Hmmm, I may "win" for now, but this thread has made me consider my outfitting as a bit more dangerous; Before I get on anything serious i'll be cutting the hiphugger back (and makeing room for real creekboots at the same time) and adding a big stringer and drilled out tennis ball to make sure I can reach the straps in a stern vertical pin).

[Larry Horne]

good deal! seems like we're getting a little something out of this thread, if not just a few chuckles.

I revisited my strap anchors and decided to leave em where they are I think the straps were just a little loose. I use those airplane buckles, and while i love the release, they are hard to cinch down so i tend to just leave them. guess they loosen up so slowly (months) that i didn't realize they were loose. kind of like the frog in boiling water.
That's my excuse and i'm stickin to it.

[marclamenace]

I use those airplane buckles, and while i love the release, they are hard to cinch down so i tend to just leave them. guess they loosen up so slowly (months) that i didn't realize they were loose.

Ah ha! Gotcha.

Maybe that's the interesting point you could change on your outfit Larry we all kind of oversaw.

Cheajak made the point previously in this same thread:

If I keep it all snug but not tight I can slide out, but if I crank 'em down I have to use the quick release.

My remix outfit is a bit the same: quick release buckles that I have to crank up each time, not like airplane buckles but rather a strap that flows through that I have to pull before to block the buckle.

Each single time I get in and out of the boat I set the straps, looking at what I have in front of me. I leave it more loose, reducing fatigue and leaving a better comfort (and blood flow!) for the smoother eddy hopping and crank it up for more serious stuff.

Maybe that's what you could improve on your outfit? Somehow, it leaves or keep the wiggle-out option the way you set it.

[Larry Horne]

yeah, I like those ladder locks for that reason, you get em snug every time you get in the boat. thats what i have in my other boats and just took out of this one.
With the old buckles tight i could still eject without loosening. I gave it a few real world tests, if you know what i mean.
but overall, i think i like the airplane buckles better, the realese seems much safer and convenient. I just need to figure out how to keep em snug!

[BigMike]

Hmmm, I may "win" for now, but this thread has made me consider my outfitting as a bit more dangerous; Before I get on anything serious i'll be cutting the hiphugger back (and makeing room for real creekboots at the same time) and adding a big stringer and drilled out tennis ball to make sure I can reach the straps in a stern vertical pin).

if you end up in a stern vertical pin and heavy, powerful water is coming down on top of you then you're pretty screwed unless you have immediate rescue. at that point it doesnt matter how well fitted out your boat is, or how easy or tricky it is to get to your straps. lets be real though, the chances of being pinned vertically by the stern are minimal unless you're either paddling a river you really shouldnt be, or are incredibly unlucky.

[jrsh92]

Has anyone actually heard of people getting pinned this way? I've read quite a few AW accident reports, and it seems that pinning and not being able to escape your boat is by far the most likely way to die on the river. But, backwards? Unless someone's completely out of control, it seems the only way that could happen is a ferry above a drop, where you don't paddle hard enough and get swept over the drop backwards. And then that drop would need to have something to pin against, and you would need to hit it. Sure, it could happen in a real-life river situation, but it just seems really really unlikely.
Of course, I imagine it would be very nasty if it did happen-- and I'd rather be overconcerned about stern pins than be dead! I'm not saying you shouldn't prepare for it, just that it seems a bit far-fetched.

Might there be some advantage to Fastex buckles there? A lot of people seem to like airplane buckles because they have a huge reliable quick release and they don't break... but if you couldn't reach your straps to quick release them, and your legs are pulled up into the straps, keeping you from falling out... your best bet may having those plastic buckles snap under the pressure. Maybe?

And while we're at it... where do you buy those airplane belt style buckles? All I could turn up with a quick search was airplane seat belts complete with buckles, and they cost a lot... is there a way to get the buckles for a reasonable price, separately from the actual belt?

[cheajack]

Hey jrsh92; is the 92 in your screen name the year in which you were born?

[dgmonster]

I have hear a several accounts of stern pins from friends on the green narrows. That second hand though.


As for fastex buckles they are known to jam and or break. So they jam when you don't want them to and break when you don't want them to, so in my experience I only use them in cases where I can slide in and out so if they jam it does not matter and a carry and extra one in my pfd.

I agree the air plane buckles are expensive. I use a plastic scuba diving weight belt, cam buckle. Its the same buckle used on rescue vest quick releases. If you look at quick release buckles on rescue pfds you will see the buckle does not carry much load because of how the webbing strung. I use a diving belt cam buckle to tie in all my out fitting , so with one pull both thigh straps come detached from the boat.


-dave

[gumpy]

scuba diving supply stores carry plastic & metal buckles like that, pretty inexpensive