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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:40 pm
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Location: Klamath River, CA
Would like some help from the experts. Class V makes both of these designs and I'm thinking about ordering one, as my search for a canoe on the West Coast has so far yielded 1 Outrage X, and since I already own one (even if it is on perma-loan) I'm just not sure I want to buy another. Plus its 8 hours away form me.

So, Edge Vs. Twister

I realize that both these designs are quite old, and any self-respecting OC-1er should have managed to paddle both during their time as a boater. That said, I have not spent any time in either, my excuse is that I live on the west coast and its hard to find an open canoe to begin with out here. I plan to use the boat for both slalom racing AND general river running, and I understand that I will have to compromise a bit with that goal in mind.

First, me, I'm 6'5" and 240 lbs. So which boat will handle supersize guys better?

It looks like the Twister is the drier of the two options, and therefore probably better for river running...but I'm just guessing. The Twister also looks as though it has softer chines??

The Edge just looks amazing, but aside from that I just don't know as much about it as I'd like.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Rob

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Canoeing isn't a sport...its an art. Unfortunately, I am not exactly Michelangelo.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:39 pm 
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I raced a Twister for a while at something in the 210 to 230# range. I was running it with a 7.75" seat height. I concluded it was too skinny for me at my weight (spin and stability issues).

Getting the seat down well below my level would help stability. But, the hull was designed for people well under my weight. The Defiant was intended as a big-guy version of the Twister.

FWIW, word from guys who were part of the groups designing the boats. Mark Clarke says the Twister is a built-up, extra-rocker, BatMax. Bob Connolly says the same for the Defiant, except he started with the CudaMax.

I never paddled an Edge, but, to me, it looks real wet for big guys.

Roy


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:03 am 
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Roy,

Thanks for the input. I've been considering racing in the 15 foot class as opposed to the 13 foot class, so do you have an opinion on the Edge 15?
I've always been handicapped by my size when it comes to boating, they just don't make a lot of boats for guys who look more like linebackers than canoeists...but it seems like the 15 foot class would be the one spot where everything that's been a disadvantage to me might suddenly become an advantage in those big boats.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:22 am 
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Never paddled a 15' Edge. A very uncommon boat at races I've been at.

The boat I would suggest is the Howler. Kaz makes them, and Mad River made them for a few years in Royalex. A really fine boat for heavier paddlers.

A close second would be the Prowler. A Prowler is +/- a Howler paddled backwards (right, John?). That said, I know Sonny Hunt is very certain than the Howler is a faster OC1 than the Prowler.

I know what you mean about a lack of hulls for heavy people. Even the so-called heavy-paddlers boats, like the Defiant, have their roots in wetted surfaces which were not designed for the 200+ paddlers (the CudaMax was designed to facilitate the designers (Hearn, Lugbill, et al.) winning races in C-1).

I have my heart set on a 13' boat with the middle 6-8' the same as the Howler. Some will say, that is the Hooter...but, that's simply not the case. The Howler carries its width toward the ends to a much greater extent than the Hooter.

Roy


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:12 pm 
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I have built and raced both designs, The designers of these boats weigh between 150 and 165 pounds. A paddler you weight , would sink these narrow designs to the point they won't handle properly. This is very true of the edge . Slalom has not traditionally been a big man sport. The biggest by far I've ever known of was Mike Corcoran , Ireland National champ, who weighed 205 pounds. His boat was wider than his competitors because of his weight to get the waterline correct .
I would say Kaz's defiant would be an excellent choice for a high-performance cruiser . Hope this helps, Vic


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:29 pm
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Hey Rob,

Did you try contacting Jenny Goldberg from the League of the Northwest? She may remember who bought my Defiant at the Cedar race more than a few years ago. Another person that was there and talked to the guy was Marc Leonard. I can attempt to contact him to see if he has a clue who it was. As I said in the other thread, I really doubt he became a regular paddler.

Another idea to consider, especially considering you are/were on the verge of ordering a boat. See if MT Canoes will make a longer Ocoee. You expressed fondness for the design but think you are too big for it's stock 11'2". Reluctantly, I would acknowledge that opinion. Since they make the FH in a two piece mold, it would not be hard to lay up two halves and add more length (to be determined). It would get slightly wider as well. I would suggest that to save some money, you could ask for a less than cosmetically splicing of the three components, but I doubt they would go for that. Jeff and John are perfectionists about their product. However, it may not be all that much more than a regular priced FH (Ocoee). The Defiant at 13'2", 24" longer than an Ocoee, would handle your size easily. I can't remember if you or anyone else referred to the Defiant as the Fat Boy. Kaz or some of the early purchasers gave it that nickname. I don't think you would have to add 24" to be happy with the performance of an Ocoee. I think 12" to 18" would do it and would be so much more fun to paddle than a Outrage X or a Caption. WAY MORE FUN!

Glad the above folks spoke up. I would be interested to see if other Ocoee fans think my idea has merit. Good luck... I'm sure it's frustrating to be in an area devoid of open boats options.

AB


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Thank you,

To everyone who took the time to reply. Its funny, I was actually thinking just the other day that someone outght to put another foot or so of boat into an Ocoee design...quite an interesting idea.
ClassFiveBoats- I'm assuming you're the same folks who are making the EDGE13/15 series still, and I certainly appreciate your feedback on the boats.
I'm planning to hit nationals this year, I sent an email to the league of northwest boaters, and maybe someone will have a Defiant around that I can paddle around a bit to see if it works for me.
In the meantime, I've got lots to keep me busy!

Thank you again!

Rob

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