C-Forum

http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1052293721/

an interesting and worthy discussion me thinks...

It lacked input from Louie.

Craig Smerda wrote:. . . an interesting and worthy discussion me thinks...

Me thinks so too. Here are a couple just to get some chat going:

1. Lack of -- or unavailability of -- instructors or mentors. True, there are lots of better paddlers who are very happy to share their expertise, and nurse a duffer along. But, preferring to paddle at their own level, they aren't always willing to drop down to a stretch of river suited to a learner's level.

2. Fear -- of being eaten by something huge and nasty.

Rick

Lack of input from more experienced paddlers.

Trying to move up too quickly (FG disclaimer: when you don't have the stomach for a good beatdown).

Sticking to familiar lines on familiar rivers.

Not learning to roll.

Fear.

Kyle

Hey look, Wiggins, I've forgotten how to roll more times than you've mastered it.

i think the bob foote roll is mostly a pitfall.....Granted it is "A Way" but in my opinion it will make more swimmers than rollers as you work at harder rivers. I got that video that gumpy pointed out to me to be helpful to get basic flip to low brace mechanics straight but that's it. the rest of it is a technical breading ground for failed rolls and super swimmers.

I'm glad I had tommy's numerous roll demos last year to learn from and I paid attention to what other creekers like dooley were doing when I kayaked with them at New Years. The side setup and sweep forward on rolls were way better than following that text book method. Bob Foote method was a pitfall I dealt with for about a month till mid january when I actively started working it out of my technique.

Basically "people" (all of us hu-mans) are creatures of habit... we like to get a routine and get into a comfort zone. Once there we like to stay there! It is what we are!

As with any learning... the human mind (body) needs to be pushed, shoved, lead and conjouled (SP?) out of that comfort zone.

When I'm involved in any education activity (aka ... allowed to teach) I try to get folks to shift their personal paradigm and try something new to them. Some have to think it out in minuet detail, others just need to see it once to get it. Some have to repeat / drill while others do it once – have that “OH” moment and get it.

On the flip side going too fast can detrimental as can over thinking. Each person learns and grows differently – finding that proper mix can be a tough balancing act.

All sports also have subtle sides that need to be explorer prior to truly starting to master a technique, if ever mastered.

Just remember that the more you know the more you realize the less you know! Now go paddle and try something new (FYI - I’m still working on that cross draw boof… and it scares the “IT” out of me even on little drops – Oh well!!!).

My $.01!

I see it all the time on the water. I'm guilty of having a case of it. It's the "I got this" attitude. The shrugging off of advice or the sticking to "my" way of paddling instead of trying something that is probably better but seems different.

It can be hard for people new to the sport to have faith in people they hardly know under the stress of running rapids for the first few times.

My paddling game is far from perfect. I've been able to step it up through some hard work and changing things about the way I was paddling last year. I'm still changing and my new attitude is that I will always be changing. Leaning less/more, shorter acceleration strokes, planting my paddle vertically...working on my tuck which is the weakest part of my roll...strange as it is.

Basically if I feel like my cup is already full..then there's no room for improvement there. I know my cup is nearly empty, so I'm ready for more. Paddling is fun to me because of the challenge and the reward of making moves I couldn't before.

My vote is attitude being number one.

Fear being a close 2.

Cobbled together/ poor outiftting probably a 3.

Pitfall #1: Thinking that paddling more difficult rivers is the key to "advancing" in WW.

While stepping it up has its place, newbie paddlers are far better off making increasingly more difficult moves on familiar rivers before they ratchet up the overall river difficulty. Then, when they do step it up, they'll be more likely to find the transition relatively smooth and quick, instead of being a nasty surprise.

John

Attempting to reify the process of advancing into a singular, linear path...

I see so many people trying to follow "the plan" whether that's a set sylabus and tests* or an endless progession of freestyle moves ranked in an arbitary way, or even assuming a neccesary progession the grading of water they paddle.

And they all end up stalling somewhere or getting bored and giving up because "the plan" simply doesn't account for their personal attributes, physical conditioning or mental robustness

*The BCU has a very comprihensive system of qualifications; and plenty of people follow them rigourously all the way to mediocrity and repeatedly failing/never attempting the final level (which requires "leading a group of competent people in a grade 4/5 environment, and personal paddling to grade 4+").

I'm sure there will be some of my comments that people will disagree with. But here's my opinion for pitfalls in making the jump from class II/III to class III/IV:

1. Obviously - not doing harder/alternate lines/ playing on familiar rivers. This increases all your boat handing skills.

2. Following someone else's line all the time. When you start running class II or III without some else's lead you learn to read water and understand features. This may be done with a lot of swims/bad lines/trouble at first, but I think until you work through this process you're never really going to be a good boater.

3. Not developing good self rescue skills. Another skill that I think is severely lacking in many paddlers today. Spend some time out of your boat in a SAFE, CONTROLLED environment (surrounded by friends who will either help or take pictures ) so that you can learn how to swim agressively, swim across eddy lines and currents, use rocks rather than get battered by rocks, deal with a swamped boat, etc. Self rescue skills don't just happen. And we're all between swims. Being confident in my ability to self rescue if things don't go well has encouraged me to push my limits.

4. On the flip side of that is learning when to say no and walk it. There are places you don't want to be out of your boat.

5. Thinking everyone else is right. I like Joshua's comment about "the plan." This may not be exactly what he meant, but along that line - there is no one way to do a thing. One particular boat is not the best for everyone. You can back paddle sometimes. Switching hands may lead to ambidextrous paddlers. And you don't have to have a "bomb-proof" roll to paddle Class III/III+ (and even IV for those of us who are a little crazy), etc.

I know I didn't mention a roll. Yes a roll is a good thing. Wish I had one. I progressed to running class IV without one, but I had solid skills in other areas. If I had a roll, I'd probably be running with big boys. Unfortunately I've got a mental block where rolling is concerned. Which leads me to another thought. You can take kayak roll classes/clinics just about anywhere at anytime of the year. Why is a good openboat roll instructor such an elusive creature?

Just my thoughts.
Kimmie

kimmieOC1 wrote:5. Thinking everyone else is right. I like Joshua's comment about "the plan." This may not be exactly what he meant, but along that line - there is no one way to do a thing. One particular boat is not the best for everyone.

You're right, it's not quite what i meant, but I'd agree with that...

Paddling is anything but binary*, it all about variations on a theme; It all ties into understanding the subtleties that eventually make a good boater great.

*There is one exception: everyone should have read all of Nealy's whitewater oriented books (especially Kayak [even if you've got canoer written through you like a stick of rock, it's a book you can learn from and laugh at).

Paul - "cross draw boof" ....is this some sort of sideways boof maneuver that i don't know about? Or are you referring to the "cross bow Boof"? (hey - if I didnt point out something like that, wut kind of Cboats.net member would I be )

John Coraor wrote:Pitfall #1: Thinking that paddling more difficult rivers is the key to "advancing" in WW.

While stepping it up has its place, newbie paddlers are far better off making increasingly more difficult moves on familiar rivers before they ratchet up the overall river difficulty. Then, when they do step it up, they'll be more likely to find the transition relatively smooth and quick, instead of being a nasty surprise.

John

I agree with this whole heartedly - What I did as I progressed was step up to a new class level, find out what it was all about, then go back down to where I came from - and start working on moves that I know I need to learn to make on the harder class.

With that being said - Steep Creeking is a different realm. With a different learning process.