C-Forum

Hey Ray... fwiw... the best paddlers in nearly every class actually are the "Masters"... you guys have been whooping up on us "kids" for years. Also... most of the "Masters" I know also race in the "Premier/Open" classes as well... so maybe they should have to choose one or the other right?

Maybe we should make the "Juniors" class anyone under 40

Being one of the people that fought to get the "X-Class" opened in the first place I'm more than willing to go back and review it's place at Nationals again. It wasn't just for "rodeo" boats though... it was for boats that didn't fit the "traditional mold" or fit within the specs for a REC/RACE boat. For example... the "L'edge" might not be a legal boat to run in the REC or RACE class but it might be allowed in the "X" class with shorter or no deck plates. What I thought was really lame was when people with boats that already fit into an existing class used them in the "X" class. Let's see... Dana Henry in a Twister versus Psycho or I in a SpanishFly... I can't imagine how that might've turned out.

For anyone that might be curious... here's the rules of the game.
http://ocs.whitewater-slalom.us/oc-srul7.pdf

X-CLASS CANOES are experimental canoes.
-X-class canoes can be any length, width, or weight, made of any material, and made by any manufacturer.
-Combined length of both decks cannot be more than 46 percent of canoe length ( 54% of canoe length must be open).
-Decks cannot be longer than 36 inches measured from the end of the hull, or closer than 24 inches to the center of the canoe.
-Center depth must be 14 inches or greater (with no maximum center depth requirement).
-Ends of the canoe can be lower than the center of the canoe but cannot be less than 12 inches high.
-Tumblehome (measured from the outside of the hull to the inside of the inwale or cockpit) cannot exceed 5 inches within the center 12 inches of the canoe, and cannot exceed 3 ½ inches at the ends of the open area.
-The inwale must taper uniformly from the center to the ends of the open area.
-The boat must be open below any possible gunwales or decks (excluding air chambers, which are allowed under possible decks but are prohibited elsewhere).
-Flotation extending beyond any possible decks will be in accordance with Open Canoe Slalom flotation rules.
-Asymmetry of the canoe, front to back or side to side, is allowed, but additions to the exterior of the hull such as fins or rudders are not allowed.
-Rodeo canoes that meet the specifications for open-canoe rodeo competition are allowed in the X-class. However, canoes that meet current specifications of either REC or RAC canoes are not allowed to enter the X-class.

Everything else falls under these limitations.
1. Width: There are no restrictions regarding canoe width or canoe width/length ratios.

2. Weight: For safety and economy, canoes shall meet minimum weight requirements. This weight includes all permanent fixtures and all flotation used for the race, but does not include paddles, containers, unattached portage yokes or other removable equipment. Legal fixtures or flotation may be added to bring a canoe up to the required weight.

-RAC Category : no minimum weight requirement
-REC Category: 3 pounds per foot of length plus 6 pounds

3. Depth shall not exceed 16 inches at a point within one foot of the center hull length, measured vertically from the highest point to the outside bottom, not including a keel. The gunwale shall form a smooth curve or series of compound curves.

4. Width of the gunwale and tumblehome shall not exceed 3.5 inches (plus or minus 1/4th inch), measured horizontally from the extreme outside of the hull or outwale to the inside of the inwale.

5. Width of the outwale shall not exceed 1.5 inches measured horizontally from the adjacent hull to the outside of the outwale. Width of the inwale shall not exceed 1.5 inches measured horizontally from the adjacent hull to the inside of the inwale except where it merges into or is under possible decks.

6. Length of decks: Combined length of both decks cannot be more than 46 percent of canoe length (54 % of canoe length must be open). Decks cannot be longer than 36 inches measured from the end of the hull, or closer than 24 inches to the center of the canoe. No part or attachment of the deck may extend more than one inch above the canoe's gunwale.

7. There shall be no devices to remove water other than bailing scoops or sponges.

8. There shall be no devices to assist portaging other than carrying yokes, pads, tumplines, and bow and stern lines.

9. Flotation is used to protect the paddler, the equipment, safety personnel and bystanders who may offer assistance, yet should not be so excessive that the open canoeing tradition is compromised. There must be enough permanent flotation (air bags excluded) to float the canoe horizontally if the canoe is full of water. Flotation shall be no more than six inches from the centerline of the canoe, except in tandem canoes where a center bag is allowed. Side flotation may be installed under possible inwales (maximum 1.5" thickness). Flotation shall not be arranged to impede the flow of water toward the bottom of the canoe. Airbags that extend beyond possible decks, or center bags in tandem canoes, must be deflated such that the entire top surface of the bags remains below the inwales. Air bags under decks can
be inflated up to the deck.

10. The canoe shall not be covered by any device or material other than normal seats, thwarts, decks and flotation as limited above.

11. There shall be no attachment to the exterior of the hull between the waterline and the gunwale other than safety lines or grab loops.

12. Safety lines of at least ¼ inch diameter and 6 feet of length, or grab-loops made of rope of at least ¼ inch diameter (or webbing ½ inch wide or wider) that an average adult hand can easily slip into shall be attached to each end of the canoe.

13. Length of canoes is measured along the centerline of the hull.

Official lengths are as follows:

REC Category
OC-1 any length
OC-2 any length

RAC Category
OC-1 any length
OC-1 at least 13 feet
OC-1 at least 15 feet
OC-2 any length
OC-2 at least 15 feet

14. It is not permissible to make the boat meet the required dimensions by the addition of taped-on extensions or by similar means. The boat should be designed to and remain within, the required dimensions. To be permissible, corrections must be of a permanent nature except where applied to repair damage during an event, and must in no case constitute a potential safety hazard.

15. Competitors who have personal sponsors may display commercial publicity on their boats and accessories.


Article V: MEASURING
1. Conformity to the specifications is necessary for a safe and fair race. It is the responsibility of paddlers to race a canoe which conforms to specifications. Measurements will be made by the chief boat measurer or other experts designated by the chief boat measurer. Measurement will be made by a combination of instruments and experienced "look and feel".

2. All canoes competing in national and regional championships must be measured and marked prior to the start of competition during times specified by the race committee. Spot checks may be made at any time during and after the competition at the discretion of the race officials. At divisional championships, measuring will be at the discretion of the race officials.

3. Any canoe failing to comply with the official specifications shall be disqualified and not allowed to start the competition.

4. When using instruments, all measuring shall be to the closest 1/8 inch or pound of weight. Marginal decisions shall be determined by judgment of whether the difference gains the competitor any appreciable advantage over others. All final determinations will be made by the chief boat measurer.

The Slalom Rules Committee will have an agenda for the meeting to keep things on track and running smoothly. Please make your comments and concerns to your regional representitives prior to the meeting so that they can be added to the agenda and discussed in an orderly fashion during the annual meeting this year.

To locate your regional Rep... http://ocs.whitewater-slalom.us/oc-reps.htm

Hope this helps... let's move forward.

Having more classes to paddle in, and more money for the race organizers is far more important to me than a little bit of class confusion.
Mike C.

I like having the x-class because a lot of people at the races Marko, Eli, Andrew, Craig, Phil etc, etc, mainly paddle x-class boats during the rest of the year so it is fun to go out and see who can run them the fastest through a slalom course.

Also, based on the response on this board there will be about 100 people paddling L'Edges by next year so the x-class might be the biggest class

I think having an excessive number of classes does just dilute the value of them.
As far as I know the rec boat classes have been introduced to attract more people to races and to get them to buy race boats.
Attracting more people to slalom races seem to have been achieved (based on what I see at the Gull river slalom, the only one I usually attend), but it has definitely failed at getting more people into race boats.
Why not have an one OC1 class, is someone doesn't want to spend the monney on a race boat, they'll just have to live with it.
What would attract me to a slalom event would be to have more opportunity to boat on other rivers and have other events than just the slalom.
I get bored quickly when I have to wait in every eddy for 10 minutes before I can practice my next two gate moves.
That's why I like the Gull. After one or 2 practice run on the course in the lower section I usually had enough and I head up to the on race weekends usually empty section to either play in Earls hole or to practice some creek moves.
It would definitely benmeficial if the Nationals were held at a place or at a time where there are other paddling options apart from the race course to be had for non-hardcore slalom racers like myself.
The ideal race format for me was last weekends Gullfest. 5 different races in 2 days. Easier slalom course for beginners and OC on Saturday morning. Two boater cross events on Saturday afternoon, an easy one in the lower section and a more difficult one in the upper section. The advanced slalom (decked boats only) on the upper section on Sunday morning and a Freestyle competirion in Earls hole on Sunday afternoon.
If the Nationals offered some of these opportunities as well, I would be more likely to attend. A number of my paddling buddies think the same way.

Just my .02 cents (Canadian).

TGG!

Welcome to my post... NOW with the highest amount of edits I've ever done on the internet

Here's the current list of available classes... I think...
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... ght=#47486

Here's what I'd suggest...

"Slalom" classes...

OC1 REC-any length commerically available "plastic"
Open
Women

OC1 SHORT RACE-any material less than 13ft.
Open
Women

OC1 LONG RACE-any material longer than 13ft.
Open
Women

OC2 REC-any length commerically available "plastic"
Open
Women
Mixed

OC2 RACE-any material or length
Open
Women
Mixed

OC1 MASTER-any material or length
OC2 MASTER-any material or length

OC1 JUNIOR-any material or length
OC2 JUNIOR-any material or length (Any competitor over the age of 18 could race in this class with a Junior competitor that is under 18 years of age)


"Combined" if the race site is suitable...

OC1 OPEN CMB any material or length

OC1 WOMEN CMB any material or length

OC2 OPEN CMB any material or length with any combination of partners


SO.... that's sixteen slalom classes plus three combined classes... and competitors could still enter up to as many as seven classes... is that enough opportunity?

How'm I doin so far?

I just wanted to make a few clarifications... "Open" would mean that anyone regardless of sex or age can paddle in this class.

Examples...

A female could race OC1 Rec Women, OC1 Rec Open, OC1 Short Race Women or OC1 Short Race Open with an Ocoee/Spark or ???

A "Master" could race in both of the "Masters" classes and still be in up to three other "Open" (four if doing the Combined) solo classes plus all the "Open" and other applicable tandem classes.

A "Junior" could race solo in the OC1 Junior class plus any other "Open" classes. In the OC2 Junior Class Juniors could race with another Junior or along with any other paddler that is not a Junior. Juniors could also race in any of the OC2 Open, Mixed or Female classes if applicable.

Please inform me if I've missed anyone... or any boat style.

The options are virtually mind boggling




Allow commercially available unmodified "X" class style boats ("Rodeo" & "Creek" boats) to compete in the REC class. In other words paddlers could still race their SpanishFly's, Taureau's or ??? but it would be against Sparks, Ocoee's & ???

I feel a eliminating the "X" class would be a reasonable concession to make for asking the 15ft RACE boats to potentially compete in the LONG RACE class against 13ft. boats. 15ft. boats could still be raced in OC1 Masters and OC1 OPEN CMB classes as well.

Some give and take from everyone would be required to trim the number of classes down... if the racers and committee actually chose to do it.

Dooleyoc-1 wrote:I like having the x-class because a lot of people at the races Marko, Eli, Andrew, Craig, Phil etc, etc, mainly paddle x-class boats during the rest of the year so it is fun to go out and see who can run them the fastest through a slalom course.

Also, based on the response on this board there will be about 100 people paddling L'Edges by next year so the x-class might be the biggest class

As much as I'd like to keep the class Dooley... and I'm one of a few folks that lobbied hard for the X-class in the first place... I'd be willing to let this class go at Nationals. If we want to trim the classes down... we're all going to have to give a little.

The L'edge was never designed to be a race boat nor were any of it's specs set to conform to the ACA OCS rules. If it fit's in a class and people want to race it... that's great but it's no sweat off my back if it doesn't.

Maybe the X class should just be modified. Most of them are 'playboats' right, so maybe there should be style points added or rather subtracted. Subtract time for rock spins or wavewheels That would be spectator friendly

Aren't there other things we can be doing as committee members to help promote the sport, than always focusing on changing the classes. The class structure, as it is, or even as it was 6 years ago, is not deterring those who want to compete. And, if for example classes like the combined have only a few people in it some years, so what?
Mike C.

cbcboat wrote:Maybe the X class should just be modified. Most of them are 'playboats' right, so maybe there should be style points added or rather subtracted. Subtract time for rock spins or wavewheels That would be spectator friendly

At the 2003 Nationals here in Wausau all of the X-class competitors agreed to jump over the rock (boof) in Big Drop and do a rock spin before gate 17 as part of their race run... it was fun... and spectator friendly... but not what racing is really about.

The Fabulous "Tug-O-War" that year... was one of the highlights of any Nationals I've ever been to.

Agreed!

paddling physicist wrote:Aren't there other things we can be doing as committee members to help promote the sport, than always focusing on changing the classes. The class structure, as it is, or even as it was 6 years ago, is not deterring those who want to compete. And, if for example classes like the combined have only a few people in it some years, so what?
Mike C.

Which committee members have bids coming in for 2010... 2011... 2012 and beyond?

Why aren't clubs, groups or venues bidding for the event?

I think that has to be the main focus of making the race more appealing to the hosts.

In my eyes... the large number of classes and three days of racing is a big part of it.

As always... these are my own personal opinions... and not those of WKCC

Would racers drive across the country for one day of racing? I agree that for some sites/bids, it is difficult to get 5 consecutive days of water. My preference would be do reduce the practice days to one, at most 2 days.

paddling physicist wrote:Would racers drive across the country for one day of racing? I agree that for some sites/bids, it is difficult to get 5 consecutive days of water. My preference would be do reduce the practice days to one, at most 2 days.

My suggestion would be to have up to two days of practice availible and two days of actual racing. Two days of racing is less taxing on the volunteers and the hosting group. We don't need volunteers (gate judges, timing, scoring, etc., etc., etc.) for practice days right?

The Northeast region has the most committee rep's yet no site or group in the Northeast has hosted the race since it was at the Dead in Maine. Why is that? If there are things we can do to keep it traveling around the nation and Canada I feel we should be doing so. Remember... the dates Nationals could be held on were opened to give us more options of race venues.

How about having it in Costa Rica in January?