C-Forum

milkman wrote:The full weight of this news is beginning to set in. It's now going to be harder and harder for people to experience our sport. .....snip....
Fortunately, there is still Blackfly. Jeremy, you rock, dude. You may be the last and ultimate source of canoes for our sport at this point. Keep the OC!.

This is a real hit to our sport. Newcomers are not likely to jump into a PE solo boat with bulkhead outfitting, and with only one manufacturer left that is only selling factory direct, I'm seeing a barrier to entry into the sport. Locally, our shops used to rent boats but they obviously don't rent Blackfly's.

I'm also thinking about WW tripping -- I don't see any good replacement for the Starburst or Canyon that is currently in production. That's a big void in the market. As much as I like the Octane92, it is not a tripping boat.

Lastly, Esquif was a really good corporate partner for environmental causes, and encouraging women to join the sport. They have donated a lot of boats to both of those causes. Not many companies doing that. Sad.

Personally, I'm strongly encouraged by the spirit of innovation at Nova Craft. Their new TuffStuff material should be a good option for tripping canoes. Heck, I'd even consider buying an Ocoee made of the stuff. Perhaps they'll also make their serious whitewater tripping canoe, the Moisie, in TuffStuff

We also shouldn't forget all the innovation going on at Millbrook. The Blink and Shacho are great solo canoe designs. I'd love to have either in my quiver of canoes.

But, alas, the loss of Esquif really does really impact the available choices for open boats. They were a great company and we owe them a lot of thanks for their support of our small community.

RIP Esquif

Do I have to take up kayaking?

Can you glue a pedestal and straps to a SUP and convert it to a SDP [Sit Down Paddleboard]?

Terrible news for sure.

Clipper is still making the viper and probe as well as their tripping canoes with their composite WW layup.

I really feel for the greater Esquif family - so many good folks I know work, or have worked for them (including Jacques, who I've only had the pleasure of speaking with on the phone, but struck me as a very humble, hard working, honest fellow.)

The designs that are most marketable will likely survive. New designs will appear. But the company that tried hard to do the right thing by it's employees, customers, the environment, and greater canoe community won't be there any more.

A very sad day for canoeing. I wish the Esquif folks all the best. And I sincerely hope that the mols for the boats find their way into good hands so that their designs keep on living.
Whitewater canoeing would not be where it is now without Esquif, they stepped up to the plate at a time when many other players started to scale back their involvement.

TGG!

Do you think it could have something to do with the T-Formex? Maybe a lawsuit or patent issue?

space-katet wrote:Do you think it could have something to do with the T-Formex? Maybe a lawsuit or patent issue?

I've not heard anything, and I'm not sure it matters.

Could be T-Formex, could be lost sales to SUPs, could be regulations, the end result is the same.

Sir Adam wrote:

space-katet wrote:Do you think it could have something to do with the T-Formex? Maybe a lawsuit or patent issue?

I've not heard anything, and I'm not sure it matters.

Could be T-Formex, could be lost sales to SUPs, could be regulations, the end result is the same.

Or a combination of many factors, coupled with a poor economic climate, cautious customers and nervous banks....

I can't even begin to imagine how it must feel having a large part of your production facility lying idle and not making income whilst you invest (gamble) heavily in development of a new material to try and get it back into operation. It can't have been an easy year for anyone at Esquif.

This is sad news for all of us! It happened to the C1 community several years ago when Drakkar (a small Polish outfit that made the 'Wheelboy' - a C1 playboat) went out of business. I bought a 'Wheelboy' and the earlier Robson 'Finkenmeister' , in part , to try and encourage new plastic C1 designs.

I am going to stick my neck out and try to outline the reasons why whitewater canoe companies (other than high-end race boat manufacturers like Vajda) are struggling:
1) OC1 and C1 markets are very small
2) We are reluctant to spend money (spelled 'frugal or cheap') and we find alternatives, such as: a) buying used boats, b) converting kayaks.
3) Plastic boats last a long time and whitewater boaters are handy at making repairs and modifications.
This is all fairly obvious. Maybe I missed something.

C1ers can convert kayaks and are spared oblivion. What will OC1ers do? You could become C1ers or go back to making your own composite boats.

Are there any whitewater plastic canoe manufacturers left in this world??

Well, some can convert kayaks...LOL. I've never been that happy with a conversion so I found an Atom that was never paddled and a 4 meter slalom just to say I have one.

There are probably thousands of canoes out there where someone got into the sport and either died or quit. We just have to wait until the family finds c boats and posts an ad.

Forgot to mention that I paddle a '70's antique slalom Noah Kevlar c-1 3-4 times a year. We have a mid '80's Blue Hole made by Roy himself in Sunbright. Single bladers are sort of like Cubans with their cars. We make them last.

Are there any whitewater plastic canoe manufacturers left in this world??

Sure there is. Blackfly, which has already been mentioned in this thread. They make PE canoes. http://www.blackflycanoes.com/

The designs we stand to lose are all the ones that were made from ABS. Maybe instead of a death knell, it's time to recognize a new era of open canoeing that will spawn new innovative materials and designs.

I wonder if we might see a strategic step back. Royalex made manufacturing easier, but the boats were on the heavy side. How much more expensive is it to make and ship composite boats over vacuum forming and shipping Royalex?

If you want Blackfly to stay in business....BUY THEIR BOATS !

C1 boaters went through this trauma a few years back. We didn't buy the new boats (WW plastic) and one manufacturer after another (Dagger, Robson and Drakkar) stopped making C1's. We are now left with kayak conversions, which fortunately can work well in some cases. I am not sure OC1ers will have a similar option.