C-Forum

Creeker I'll ask Big Al if he saw a Force on the UY today. I know he was interested too. I thought about heading out but saving the vacation days.

Too bad seeing isn't beleiving I too would like to take one for spin.

Seriously, is the Force that wet? How wet is it compared to something like the L'Edge? Do you really need a pump in that boat?

You never NEED a pump.


It's not going to be as dry as a (n intact) L'edge.

sbroam wrote:Anybody . . . able to compare the ride to a Spanish Fly?

. . . which was the question that originally started this thread!

(Beware -- Thread-Pirates are on the loose!)

I know the Force is a great boat -- but how does it's performance compare to the Sp'Fly?

Thanks!
Rick

Pierre LaPaddelle wrote:

sbroam wrote:Anybody . . . able to compare the ride to a Spanish Fly?

. . . which was the question that originally started this thread!

(Beware -- Thread-Pirates are on the loose!)

I know the Force is a great boat -- but how does it's performance compare to the Sp'Fly?

Thanks!
Rick

Doh! I guess I was jacking it back... If it ain't drier than the fly, then I will continue to happily paddle it where wet doesn't matter and the Remix where it does.

The Big Dog guys were sighted at the UY Putin and they did have the Force OC with them. They were ahead of us the whole way so I can't speak as to how it performed other than it apparently made it.

Hey guys

Sorry I had to keep moving yesterday on the yough. We had a schedule to keep to so we could make our flight back to the UK.

Again I'm not going to give you an unbiased view but I love my force. Drive it hard and it'll stay dry. You should note that I had no trouble keeping up with my kayaking buddies who were setting the pace on the Gauley this week. It really is a sweet boat.

I used it for the past ten days on the fantastic rivers you have in the south east. Whether it was surfing waves on the Gauley or creeking in north Carolina the force let me have all the fun I could have.

For those that are interested the rivers we ran this week are........

New
Upper Gauley
Lower Gauley
Rocky broad (4.5 ft juicy)
North fork French broad
Green narrows (200% super juicy)
Upper yough

Anyway it was great to meet so many of you guys over the past few days. As Chris smith mentioned earlier in the thread get in touch with him and he can get the ball rolling to getting a force in your life.

Thanks to everyone here for showing us such a great time. Hope to be back soon.

Cheers

Bob

sbroam wrote:How does this boat float the larger paddler? i.e. 220# and up? Anybody of that size able to compare the ride to a Spanish Fly? My Fly would probably be a lot drier and just about perfect if I lost 30# but, well, that ain't likely. [Note, I'm NOT knocking the SF.]

Feedback after the first two days on the water. First, I'm going from an Encore to this boat with nothing else ever paddled, and have run Class II/III only, so take my observations for what they are - kind of the opposite end of the spectrum from the boat designers feedback. At 5'10", 220#, this floats me fine, even with 6" of water in it. This boat is surprisingly stable, primary and secondary, which for a more experienced short boater probably means its really stable. This boat is fast - I was out with kayakers and had no trouble keeping up. Any faster and I would have gotten into more trouble. As mentioned before, If I drove it, it stayed dryer. Running wave trains straight on did not put alot of water in the boat, more than an Encore obviously, but not swamped. First day out in a boat like this I was able to surf some small waves.

Outfitting - the stock airbags do not fill the ends well. Larger volume bags could help to dry up the boat and minimize the amount after a roll. The stock seat height seems too high to me, lowering by 1/2" to 3/4" before next trip. I cut my 58" down to 54" and felt as if I had plenty of reach. Trim - for me, with the footpegs in the forward position, backrest pad cut down to half original thickness, the boat trims out slightly stern heavy (with pump and battery mounted behind pedestal). This was recommended to make the boat sportier. I might try to even out the trim - with my skills (or lack thereof), sporty might be a little much. One thing that donned on me yesterday, the trim of the boat can be easily adjusted by mounting the entire pedestal forward/aft - with all the outfitting glued to the pedestal itself, this can be accomplished without having to reglue anything and could be accompished in just a few minutes.

Anyway, even with the dumps and swims, I had a blast and can see the performance potential. This is going to be a fun boat to grow into. And yes, I'm already tired of people asking me what the holes in the deck are for. Hope someone finds this feedback useful.

Just tell them that a 6 pack fits in those holes for a total of 12.

I can verify the beer holder, and I'm pretty sure that they'd survive a roll or two (although Big Dog accepts no responsibility for lost beer and littering on the river :



I'm sorry that some of you guys missed the Big Dog paddlers on the Upper Yough, but I'd definitely like to get some boats up that way if there are any willing outfitters...

Cheers,

Frankie (Chris Smith)

My Big Dog Force OC1 is available for folks who want to demo one in the Ottawa area. I am out of the country for the Winter, but my boat is stored at the Esprit Rafting warehouse until spring (sadly I couldn't take it with me down south).
The outfitting is slightly modified from factory, as I like my boats outfitted C1-style, i.e. without foot pegs but with thigh straps.
If anyone would like to give it a go, PM me and I will arrange for you to be able to get it from the warehouse.

TGG!

As far as how it compares to a Spanish fly, I haven't been in a Fly for a year, so my memory is not the freshet, but overall the force seems to be faster and rolls way easier. Primary stability is comparable, secondary feels a bit more solid in the Force. The Fly has more of a planing hull and is therefore easier to spin, but Bob did spin fine in his on the Gauley, so it might just be my poor technique.
I would say if creeking is your priority, then the Force has the edge IMHO. If you are more play focused, then the Fly may be a better choice.
I'll hopefully get to compare the 2 boats again soon, if so I will give more detailed feedback soon.
TGG!

Pierre LaPaddelle wrote:Now that the Force has hit the open market, I'd love to read some reviews. In particular, how does it compare/contrast with, say, the Spanish Fly. . .

the great gonzo wrote:As far as how it compares to a Spanish Fly. . . overall the Force seems to be faster and rolls way easier. Primary stability is comparable, secondary feels a bit more solid in the Force. The Fly has more of a planing hull and is therefore easier to spin . . . I would say if creeking is your priority, then the Force has the edge IMHO. If you are more play focused, then the Fly may be a better choice.TGG!

T. S. Eliot said it best: "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."

Thank you, Gonzo !

Rick

I know this has been a long time coming, but the Force OC1 will be available through East Coast outfitters at a USA Retail price of $1150.

The Kaos OC1 (std-kevlar) @ $1600

The Kaos OC1 (pro-kevlar) @ $1800

I've already mentioned that I'm currently based in Greenville, SC - so I'm starting with local outfitters and spiralling out from there.

However, if you're further afield get in contact and I'll be able to supply you boats until we get a local outfitter onboard. Email at chris@bigdogkayaks.com.

Cheers,

Frankie

Available on the West Coast anywhere?