The guide who drown at Fingernail rapid on the Gauley

[Louie]

Monday, was a OO guide who gave us a ride on the shuttle last Saturday. Our prays for his family and the OO family.

[Craig Smerda]

dam'n

[dgmonster]

It seems to have been a very unlucky weekend on the UG ! How did the guide end up there tho?

[Louie]

IT WAS A GROUP OF OO GUIDES ON A BUSMANS HOLIDAY

[dgmonster]

I understand. A terrible accident indeed!

[oopsiflipped]

I am very sorry to hear that, Louie. I worked with several guides from OO on the Pigeon this summer.

[Louie]

My nephew still works there and he said the fellow was a hellva nice guy.

[cadster]

There were two guides in training and a rookie who died on Colorado rivers over the summer in three separate accidents. The deaths were due to a strainer, foot entrapment, and sieve. The sieve should have been know to the guides since it had killed at least three others.

It’s hard not to conclude something’s wrong with guide training or culture, but so many fatalities could be due to an increase in the number of new guides. I’ve heard that guide training has become a money maker for outfitters.

[malone]

At OO, you do not get paid until you get released to run trips. Some people never get released, so it's not a money maker for them. I have lost a few friends from OO due to issues on rivers other than the Ocoee. I think that it may be partially due to reading water and possible not being with others who are more familiar with the particular river & it's hazards. Reading water usually only tells you what is on or near the surface. If you swim on big water, you can go deep and things can be quite different.
I am very sorry for the OO family as well as Matt's family.

[cadster]

My understanding is that outfitters are charging for raft guide training without committing to give the trainees work afterwards.

[markzak]

My understanding is that outfitters are charging for raft guide training without committing to give the trainees work afterwards.

YES, exactly. Thats how the rafting companies absolve themselves of responsibility if an incident like this was to happen. This way the rafting company can claim that the training was a fee-for-service no different than a paying customer coming to go down the river. They don't have to pay into worker's comp, unemployment, etc. All of the outfitters I have worked for before either charge for training or make you sign the same liability release that their customers sign when you fill out your application. I don't see training as a "money-maker" more so the outfitters want to train as many newbs as they can to pick the best of the best to offer work to.

[Sir Adam]

depends on the state and outfitter, so please don't generalize this to all.

The companies in NYS I'm familiar with (and have worked for) do not charge for training, nor do they pay until folks get their licenses. Some take longer than others, and many decide it's not for them. One or two guides a year seem to stick "long term" (more than 5 years), at least in my 16 years or guiding.

Maine is (or at least was) MUCH more rigorous than NY, trainees didn't pay there either (except to the state, but I suspect that is everywhere )

[cadster]

Colorado has to be near the top in terms of the number of commercial rafts for a state. I’m an outsider, but see differences in the guides between companies. Twenty-something guides do dominate. They're also mostly transient and do a lot of drinking.

[sbroam]

Are guides licensed in the southeast?

[Louie]

No just certifiable. We have to have CPR and Basic First Aid. First Responder if you are trip leader.

don't know if it is still true but raft guides for unemployment, workman comp. the state classified us as Carnival Workers. The real carnival workers were quite insulted