What is carbon and light and sparkly all over?

Maven · Post by **Maven** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:00 pm

EXCELLENT hull graphic (Maven) by AdkSara

CanoeBoy · Post by **CanoeBoy** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:17 pm

Sweet

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:13 am

Those photos show TWO kids in the candy shop! Some mighty sweet looking candy too. I feel like the short kid

I love the look on his face. You just know he wants a Maven of his own

Great job Adam, I can't wait to try one.

Post by **adamin** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:33 am

The fellow holding the Maven is Simon Gardner, expert boat builder..the up and coming boater is Noah, Simon's son!

The boat is MUCH lighter than i expected...and the deck is more flexible than i expected too (though it IS just a flat sheet in back...). We're going to chop it and seam it in the next two weeks hopefully, and then it's outfitting and some water trials again, to test the chop and the layup. In the end I went with an outer layer of S-glass for durability (abrasion resistance), then a layer of Carbon (stiffness / looks), and 3 layers of Kevlar (hull-two for the deck). So, it's a "4/5" layup, similar to a PS Composites layup, but substituting Carbon for Polyester, BUT without the Gelcoat.

I suspect once seamed together it will be pretty bomber...and yes, I am using Kevlar seam tape inside and out:).

If we can't get the prototype down before the Armada Mike we'll try and squeeze you into it then

Keep the C....
Adam

Post by **PAC** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:41 pm

darn that is looking Sss...weet! I'm looking forward to test drive too! The name on the bottom is a nice touch! Kudos to the candy store kids!
Personally I think the young'n is already eye'n up his chop!

Oh the strip C looks nice on the side too!

Rumplestiltskin · Post by **Rumplestiltskin** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:33 pm

Congrats on a fine looking boat! That finish is really very well done.

Not to worry about the flex of the deck (although two K, one S, and the carbon is probably less the 20 oz/sq yd.) The addition of a rim and seams will firm it up considerably. Walls will to the rest.

And even if the deck is still too flexy and cracks along stress risers that the seaming creates, you know where to find the Maven mold to pull another one!

What reinforcements, if any, did you use in each part?

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:57 pm

For this boat we didn't do any selective reinforcements-yet. I'm curious to see how this one goes, and will tweak further boats as necessary.

Planned "reinforcements"-the seams will be very stiff...two layers inside and out is my current plan (epoxy)

endpours with microballons in epoxy.

Epoxied-in outfitting (rope most likely), with S-glass over the top (2 or 3 layers). This also stiffens the surrounding area a bit

In the grey Maven I also glassed the bow and stern minicell walls in (glassing the hull to the deck in the middle around the pillar). I may do the same, but to a greater extent with this boat.

I'm also planning on filling most of the bow and stern (within reason) with Minicell. It will add weight, but should also provide support and displace water (I don't like air bags...but I DO NOT want to lose this boat!).

I'm thinking the next time around, for interested parties, I might do carbon 'ribs' (Sweet composites has 3" wide carbon strips "on sale" right now...). I'm still thinking that one through, though.

I'm also contemplating laying up a Viper in a similar fashion (but with ribs, due to the increased width. I would LOVE a light weight Viper.... But first things first...we'll see how this one holds up.

Thank you for all the kind words!

NZMatt · Post by **NZMatt** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:32 pm

Whine!Whine!

clt_capt · Post by **clt_capt** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:38 pm

Adam,
Using the 3" carbon TOW will add some stiffness, but you may need to put in 2 layers and cover it with Kevlar or glass to get the full effect.

You will have a MUCH better idea just how stiff it is once you seam it - I'd bet you could walk on it (but wouldn't recommend it)

The boat looks great.

F

Mike W. · Post by **Mike W.** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:02 pm

clt_cpt, what's a TOW?

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:47 pm

Last I heard a TOW was a wire-guided anti-tank missle; I just can't figure out how Adam is going to carry one on the Maven.

Rumplestiltskin · Post by **Rumplestiltskin** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:06 pm

Carbon fibers generally are delivered in "tows," or bundles of fibers.

MerriamWebster.com has:
1 : short or broken fiber (as of flax, hemp, or synthetic material) that is used especially for yarn, twine, or stuffing
2 a : yarn or cloth made of tow b : a loose essentially untwisted strand of synthetic fibers.

Post by **PAC** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:22 pm

Darn.. the things you learn at this site!

Sir Adam · Post by **Sir Adam** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:55 pm

Clt_Capt:

I was thinking of using either 2 layers of the 2mm, or one 4mm layer...would two 4mm layers be best then? My intention was to put them before the last inner layer of Kevlar in the boat (so they would be covered and better integrated into the layup). Is this the correct location (essentially like ribs in a canoe was my thought), or is the center, or near the "outside" of the layup best?

I'll have to dig out Walbridge's boat building manual for their thoughts again as well. It's too bad they didn't have easy access to Carbon back then-the book is GREAT, but doesn't include much information on integrating carbon into the layup (of course, back then it was $100 / yard, and that was 1980's prices...).

Thank you all again for your assistance! I very much look forward to meeting some of you in an eddy this summer, while paddling the Maven....

John Coraor · Post by **John Coraor** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:51 pm

Adam:

My experience with carbon is all with selective use of uni-directional single TOW reinforcements rather than woven cloth or other formats. What was available from John Sweet when I last used them tended to be very fussy as you had to work hard to wet-out all the fibers without catching any and pulling them out of position. Consequently, it was somewhat of problematic to layup several fussy carbon ribs (all while the previous layers are threatening to go off) and then risk messing the ribs up when you put the final whole-boat layer over top. What was common practice then, was to layup the ribs inside the last whole boat layer and then place a layer of glass or kevlar seam tape over top of each rib to secure it in place.

However, meanwhile the carbon fiber options have advanced considerably and these earlier problems may no longer be an issue. Reinforcements under the final whole boat layer would theoretically be a better method, if the mechanics of layup are no longer a concern. I think that you need some input from those who've posted here that have used carbon reinforcements more recently than I.

John

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