Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

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jfkoeppe
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Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

Post by jfkoeppe »

My wife and I are looking to buy new (for us) slalom C1s and a C2 for doing slalom races. We are still debating whether to buy new or used. Here is a little background:

* We have raced slalom for 25 plus years, although we haven't raced too much lately. We used to race quite a bit, racing many times at Penn Cup, NESS races, and a good number of times at nationals and age group nationals.

* We have old designs: Whupatar C2 (designed in '96) and Zealot C1s (designed in '96), so they were obviously designed under old, slalom length/width/weight rules

* We have briefly tried out a couple of 'new'-rule boats: a Lizard C1 and a Galasport C2 (not sure of model, ~2008 design). We really liked the newer designs.

* Since we are no longer racing and training as much as we were, we would prefer boats that are at least somewhat forgiving, rather than higher performance, but perhaps harder to control.

* I am about 185 lbs. My wife is about 120 lbs. In C2, I paddle bow; which I know is backwards from the way most teams place big vs smaller paddler, but we have done it this way for 25 years and it works for us. I'm guessing that means that a C2 with relatively more volume in the bow would be better for us.

I/we would appreciate suggestions as to what current designs would be good for us, and if there is a difference between Vajda and Galasport boats. From what I can gather, these two companies are pretty much the only two options when it comes to current slalom designs.

Thanks,
John
Bob P
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Re: Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

Post by Bob P »

Shorter boats have no advantage on the kind of courses that you run, so I wouldn't get obsessed with getting the latest design. If you do get a newer design, make sure that it is also to the latest narrower spec, so at least you'll gain some speed there.
Bob P
wheresmyroll
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Re: Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

Post by wheresmyroll »

Want to sell the Whupatar?
jfkoeppe
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Re: Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

Post by jfkoeppe »

Yes, we would be willing to sell the Whupatar. A couple of caveats:

1) We want to get a new (for us) C2 first and that won't happen immediately.

2) We live in Wisconsin.
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Kelly-Rand
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Re: Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

Post by Kelly-Rand »

John,

I paddle a Vajda Magma 420 C2 and I found it to be fast and does not seem to have been any harder to paddle than the old Arguemax I started out in. I and my usual partners weigh in at around 330 lbs and I've had 360 lbs in it once and did not feel a real drop in performance. The weight ranges the manufacturers quote are not necessarily meaningful unless you are a world cup paddler. My C2 is rated for a team of about 250 lbs. That said I don't think the cost of the canoe will change just for the slightly shorter length. 450 is standard length.

I'm 6'4" and have not tried the heavy bow arrangement. If you don't mind minor damage you may want to see if you can buy a boat from one of the teams in the Southeast. A new C2 is going to be around 2.6 to 3 grand. They may be willing to sell a scuffed up one for a 1/3 to 1/2 that.

Mine has quite a few patches but I still think it is a nice looking canoe,
Jim KR

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a C-1 I will stand"
JimW
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Re: Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

Post by JimW »

As I explained in the another thread I wasn't able to try very many C1's, but compared to a Maverick of approx '96 vintage, my iScream is a lot more forgiving.

The rule changes were primarily to suit races in artificial courses which are getting narrower and narrower to get the biggest features from the minimum amount of water (essential for the economics of a pumped course), but it seems to me that they have generally produced much better handling boats. Because the boats are shorter they tend to be fuller around the cockpit which adds a bit of stability, but it's not just the hull, the deck generally has a very slight bulge behind the cockpit which seems to help get pop out of a stern dip turn.

I think the iScream and Supremo/Supremo II are the more forgiving boats in the Vajda range.

Manufacturer is a difficult choice, Galasport and Vajda are dominating at present because so many of the top paddlers use their boats. I'm not sure how many other manufacturers you have in the US but in the UK I do still see other British makes of boat. Perhaps the main consideration is which construction, I have a Galasport K1 (MEXXL) in Mixt construction (single skin carbon/kevlar hull, diolen deck, not vacuum bagged) and a Vajda C1 (iScream XXL) in Sport/SL construction (foam sandwich carbon kevlar hull and deck, vacuum bagged, unidirection carbon in places, heat cured) and the difference in strength between them is unbelievable. I almost wish I'd got the K1 in Profi construction which appears to be about equivalent to the Sport/SL, maybe I wouldn't have cracked it so quickly (I'm in division 2 and training with mostly prem paddlers, I often try moves that are too hard for me and end up hitting something.... which is not the boats fault!).

When I bought my boats last year, the order time for Vajda was about 5 weeks, for Galasport, closer to 5 months.
jfkoeppe
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Re: Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

Post by jfkoeppe »

Thanks for your response. More info helps.

You say, "I'm not sure how many other manufacturers you have in the US ..."
**> To the best of my knowledge there aren't any manufacturers in the US or Canada making slalom boats under the current specs. Millbrook boats (in New England) has some slalom molds, but I think they're all the 4m length for C1 or 4.5m length for C2. (Kaz, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

**> I know what you mean about the Maverick. I paddled a Maverick Plus for a few years. I liked it if I was paddling well that day, but it could be rather frustrating at times.


In the past Dagger (Tennessee) made slalom boats.
Last edited by jfkoeppe on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gbaum
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Re: Suggestions for Slalom C1 and C2

Post by gbaum »

TCGSport/UpstreamEdge in the US carries Nelo and Connect Kayaks C1s. Latest Nelo C1 is the Flow, which comes with interchangeable C1 and K1 seats to permit racing in both classes. The new Connect Kayaks C1 is the Piola. I don't have any more information about either boat, but would be interested in hearing from anyone who does.
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