Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slalom)?

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JimW
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Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slalom)?

Post by JimW » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:27 pm

As per the title, I'm really looking for reccommendations for slalom C1's suitable for a heavier paddler.

I'm currently around 112kg (246lbs) although I will soon be back to 105 and maybe less (230lbs) so ideally I'm looking for a boat which can be cut for 105kg/230lbs, which seems to rule out a lot right away.

I'm classing myself as a relative beginner because although I have been messing about with C1s on and off for around 20 years and I am pretty confident in OC1 now, whenever I get in a slalom C1 I feel like a complete noob. A big part of that is probably because I have never had access to one suitable for my weight, although I do now have access to one a lot closer than before. I am therefore looking for something that doesn't require the skills of a world champion to get along with....

My research so far has indicated the Nomad/Jem Tesla (UK built boat) which is apparently pretty stable compared to some but can stall a bit in pivots as a result. I still need to find out exactly who if anyone is making them now, Nomad don't list it and I'm told the designer moved to Jem but their website lists nothing, and see what upper weight it can cope with.

Galasport El Scorcho looks to be available in big enough size but I have no info on the handling?

Most of the C1 paddlers I know seem to paddle Vajda boats - some I have been advised are too twitchy for beginners, and their website doesn't really list upper weight limits - most of the larger sizes just say 85kg+, well 105kg is a lot of +.....
The larger boat I have access to through the club is a Vajda, I'll need to find out which model and actually paddle it a bit to find out how it really handles - first impressions were that it is much easier than my Maverick which I am at least 30kg too heavy for.

Other manufacturers either don't build C1s or list max weights way below what I need.

Obviously being mostly US based y'all might come up with some names I can't get over here, but let me know anyway, it might just be a case of working out who is or can import them...

ezwater
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by ezwater » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:34 pm

You might have liked my old Dagger Zealot, which handles heavier paddlers well, and while slower than a Maverick, has better turning and pivoting behavior. Maverick is too "tubular".

clt_capt
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by clt_capt » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:32 pm

I've been there - trying to find a slalom boat that would fit a larger guy. Even at 200 lbs, most of the current boats are not really suited - seems like they are all designed for Mikal Martikan with an optimum weight around 170 lbs

I paddle a full cut Vajda Scream - it does ok, but it is easy to tell that it sits lower in the water for me than for top competitors... Would be great to see a modern, large person boat - maybe 2 - 3 inches wider than minimum to get more surface area.

I just haven't had the time to build the plug...

JimW
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by JimW » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:31 pm

ezwater - I should probably have mentioned I'm looking for a 3.5m boat because a lot of my use will be on a small artificial course where my 4m boat doesn't really fit, even if it fitted me!

clt_capt - you aren't the first person to say to me that most modern boats seems to be based around MM! As for building a plug, if I had time to do that I would pester Matt Fritz for the offsets of his Pepe, but I don't, and I don't have the experience to start a design from scratch, and either way will end up costing more than buying a new boat in one of the lower specs.

Still hoping for a revelation, but at the moment it looks like El Scorcho may be the only suitable choice - anyone know what it paddles like?

strong
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by strong » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:58 pm

I paddled a iMo, the generation before for several years, weighing from 190-220. When I was under 200 lbs the boat made me feel like a great paddler. It was responsive, turned amazingly well and was fast. At 220 i definitely caught the back edge a lot, and had to really be on my game to paddle well. The back edge definetly caused a lot of swims at 220, that it didn't at 190. It wasn't twitchy, but I was clearly lower in the water than I should have been.

I am not positive, but my memory is that the boat got a touch narrower in the move from the iMo to the El Scorcho. Does any one else know about the specs between the Loco, iMo, and El Scorcho?

Hope this helps

Bob P
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by Bob P » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:17 pm

Frankly, I don't think you are going to find a 3.5M boat that is appropriate for your weight. My recommended boat for you is a full-cut Extrabat, Cudamax, Fanatic or similar design vintage. At your weight, any of those will still act like a low-volume stern contemporary design.
Bob P

JimW
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by JimW » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:46 am

It does seem that I am looking for something that doesn't exist - which is kind of annoying because it took me about 117.9 seconds to find a K1 that fitted me and I got on well with...

Normally I would just buy what I think is the right boat on the basis that if I don't get on with it, someone else will (that's never happened yet!) but in this case it seems there is no someone else, I am a market of 1......

Ah well, it's only money, and I do like shiny things....

clt_capt
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by clt_capt » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:45 pm

Bob P wrote:Frankly, I don't think you are going to find a 3.5M boat that is appropriate for your weight. My recommended boat for you is a full-cut Extrabat, Cudamax, Fanatic or similar design vintage. At your weight, any of those will still act like a low-volume stern contemporary design.
I would stay away from the Extrabat. Pretty small all the way around. A modified cudamax would be great or even a stern cut Ultramax - wouldn't take too much to shorten either. One big difference though, most of the modern boats are "cab" forward, while the older Max boats have more in the stern.

ezwater
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by ezwater » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:51 pm

A Zealot (sort of a successor to the Fanatic) would be cab-forward, forgiving, with a friendly stern that could be chopped to 3.5 meters. Unfortunately you are very unlikely to find one in the UK.

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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by TomAnon » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:51 pm

Galasport will still build a Loco. Good boat easily cut to 105 kg. They could blow it up a bit more as well. Not the most cutting edge design these days. The stern does not slice and sink so well. Not a lot of pop, however, that is a lot to expect from a boat cut for 105 kg. that will still float high enough to be fast on the straight line.

JimW
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by JimW » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:26 pm

Well, there was only so much research I could do, and I was only able to try one boat that is even close, which is the Vajda iScream test boat in size L (which Steve from Hydrasport races at 92kg).

Much, much better for me than the much smaller boats I've tried. Although I only tried it on the flat I had much more confidence that I wasn't going to trip over an edge just forward paddling (yep, that's how overweight I am for the maverick!) and could quite confidently pivot both ways. I also found it much easier to keep it straight, far fewer cross deck strokes - possibly because I was more comfortable engaging the outside edge?

I asked about the Vajda sizing because the claim of 85kg+ for the XXL size seemed quite vague, apparently their sizing is based on big water use (i.e. international standard courses) and for most UK venues the stated sizing may be a little big for suggested weight of paddler, although the extra volume is around the middle and shouldn't effect the sliciness for pivots, but provides more pop for accelerating out of them.

Taking the boat width as an indication of stability (I know it's not the full story, my day job involves understanding stability), the iScream seems to be 13mm wider than El Scorcho, so with nothing else to go on the iScream should suit me better. Even if I'm wrong, the iScream will definitely allow me to progress a long way from where I am (I could tell that much) - so I ordered one.

I'll be back in a couple of months to let you know how I get on with it!

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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by clt_capt » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:58 am

I weigh in about 200 Lbs and I have a Scream (not iScream) XL - no issues with size for me. Took me a little bit to trim it out to keep the stern up and bow down, but you should be fine with an XL or XXL iScream

JimW
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by JimW » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:51 pm

I'm picking up my XXL iScream on Saturday so I'll find out soon enough!

I'll report back, well probably after the weekend because I'll be buzzing, but in a couple of weeks after I properly get the hang of it I'll report back more objectively.... :)

JimW
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by JimW » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:56 am

So far so good!
Much less twitchy than my Maverick or other boats I've tried before (all of which are too small for me).
Not sure about the trim, the stern does seem low, but it doesn't feel like the stern is down when paddling - I have only been on very easy water so far though. I can turn it flat or pivot, it's not like the stern always dips whether I want to to or not, but like I say, I've been on flattish moving water, not aerated water yet.
Width is good, both for stability and getting in - most boats I've tried are quite narrow, at least where my feet need to go which affects how low I can get onto the seat. I've been using about 115mm seat in the club boat recently, but I was able to go straight to 100mm (4") in mine and be slightly more comfortable.

Plenty of volume around the cockpit so even when the stern is under I still have plenty of volume to lean on for control/stability, I wasn't getting quite as much pop as I'd hoped, but that could well be a timing issue and the relatively slow water which meant my turns were relatively slow so I was probably missing the moment - defintely more pop than I get in a boat way too small though!

Now I can actually learn how to paddle it properly :)

JimW
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Re: Slalom C1 for heavy paddler & relative beginner (in slal

Post by JimW » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:19 pm

Phil Miller took some photos of me, I've tried to pick a few that show the boat off well - it does look like the stern is low even though it felt fine:

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