The end of ESQUIF..... :(

[the great gonzo]

There are 2 more manufacturers of PE canoes in Europe as well!
Big Dog is still producing the Force OC1.
Robson makes the Homes, which is, next to the original Armerlite version, also available in a PE version. Sadly they are not widely available in North America.
And I am convinced that someone will take over the Esquif PE canoe molds and that the designs may see the light of the day again.

TGG!

[Sir Adam]

Thankfully we have a number of awesome composite boat builders who have both older designs and continue to innovate (looking at you Kaz / Millbrook Boats!) in addition to some newer builders (RiverElf, CompositeCreations), and some folks who will still build old designs (Class V, Murky Waters). On the C1 side we also have PS Composites of course - I actually don't know if they have any OC molds or not.

Let's not rule out Mohawk here either on the non-composite (meaning fiber reinforced resin) boats....

I think we need to be honest with ourselves that any larger company that comes out with a WW canoe (or C1) is doing so because they love the sport and the chances of them making much (or any) on it are slim.

Unless we have a lot more folks paddling canoes, or costs come down, the only boats we are likely to see are the passionate paddlers that are either in charge of a manufacturing division or willing to put in loads of time for little pay and scrape something together (Jeremy / BlackFly).


I still hold the bigger loss here is the environmentally friendly, pro-paddler company culture Esquif had.

[PAC]

On the C1 side we also have PS Composites of course - I actually don't know if they have any OC molds or not.

I know PS has some OC Molds laying about - but never checked which ones. Another to do over the coming UY season!

[pblanc]

It looks as if there might soon be a composite Ocoee option as well:

http://www.rapidmedia.com/whitewater/ca ... dium=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bob P]

I think some people have a mistaken impression of a composite boat's longevity. Most of them not only absorb abuse better than Royalex, they are easier to fix. Their generally lighter weight makes it easier to avoid nasty stuff too. (Bring a roll of duck tape if you're worried...) It's not unusual to find a 15-year-old boat still in general use.

Personally, I don't bounce down semi-dry steep creeks, but those who do probably replace their boats rather frequently...

[sbroam]

Bob P - there is a lot to overcome with regards to peoples' impressions on that. I know I flinch badly when I hit rocks in my glass boat... Though I surely do love how light it is on and especially *off* the water

[clt_capt]

Many years ago, I was able to paddle a composite Sunburst (very Long time ago) - VERY different boat from the Royalex version

Not only lighter, but definitely sharper edges and an all around more responsive boat.

Same held true for a composite ME vs a Royalex ME - Not even close to the same boat.

[chuck naill]

It looks as if there might soon be a composite Ocoee option as well:

http://www.rapidmedia.com/whitewater/ca ... dium=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the link, ""I feel like the death of Royalex may end up being the evolution of paddling, taking us back to skill and precision rather than just bashing our way down rapids.”

I remember the first time I saw someone intentionally hitting and spinning on a rock of how I had always tried to avoid that sort of thing, trying to preserve my beat up Blue Hole.

[JimW]

This idea of going back to basics and learning to paddle around rocks is going to work for the vast majority of boaters who paddle up to about grade 4 on bigger volume rivers.

For the minority that are pushing the envelope to catch up with the extreme kayakers running steeper and lower volume stuff sometimes the line presents a really significant chance of slamming your boat onto a rock if you are just a little bit off it, sometimes the line requires you to slam your boat into a rock, lean onto your elbow pad and spin the boat off again.
These guys are already pushing beyond the punishment Royalex will take and really require PE boats, but for the rest of us is Royalex a necessity or a convenience?

Personally I'd like to see more innovation in composites - you don't have to use a brittle resin!
Amerlite and twintex (are they alternative brands for the same stuff?) have proven problematic for repair (it seems there is a procedure, but it's not DIY friendly) but there are other options.

I have had a set of carbon reinforced nylon blades on a kayak paddle since 2001. The paddle is a 4 piece split so it is not my everyday kayak paddle (which has single laminate carbon epoxy blades) but it has been my only paddle on several international trips and has often been my go to paddle for running steep rocky ditches here in Scotland. Those blades have some scuffs, but there is not a single chip or any signs of wear or real damage. Nylon is pretty heavy, a carbon-nylon boat would probably be ridiculously heavy but it is an example to show that tough strong composites are possible, the trick is going to be finding something lighter than PE that doesn't require horrendously expensive tooling (I'm guessing the carbon nylon moulds are quite complex?).

[Nolan]

Nolan Whitesell here, I've been unable to get in my canoes since my knee replacements so plan on selling my personal canoes as well as several "new" hulls which I saved for future use. The hulls were molded over 10 years ago which is why I refer to them as "new" Storage has been inside in ideal conditions. Including Piranha & Descender hulls. I live in Tn now but Will be at Nantahala "old business site" at adventurous fast rivers rafting, on June 20 & 21 weekend - also have some saddles and other parts will be selling for cash. "New" hulls (no rails, decks, outfitting - just straight out of mold hull $950.00) various others used and some needing repair, all Whitesell proprietary lay-up or royalex lite.
These will be personal boats, NOT company boats (Co. Is no longer in business - no warrenties or guarantee or refunds). You can email me with subject "canoes" - I may not answer as promptly as I used to when I was in business but will try my best to get back to you. If you like royalex this may be your chance to stock-up!
Canoe@white-water.com

[pblanc]

Nolan Whitesell here, I've been unable to get in my canoes since my knee replacements so plan on selling my personal canoes as well as several "new" hulls which I saved for future use. The hulls were molded over 10 years ago which is why I refer to them as "new" Storage has been inside in ideal conditions. Including Piranha & Descender hulls. I live in Tn now but Will be at Nantahala "old business site" at adventurous fast rivers rafting, on June 20 & 21 weekend - also have some saddles and other parts will be selling for cash. "New" hulls (no rails, decks, outfitting - just straight out of mold hull $950.00) various others used and some needing repair, all Whitesell proprietary lay-up or royalex lite.
These will be personal boats, NOT company boats (Co. Is no longer in business - no warrenties or guarantee or refunds). You can email me with subject "canoes" - I may not answer as promptly as I used to when I was in business but will try my best to get back to you. If you like royalex this may be your chance to stock-up!
Canoe@white-water.com

Any Whirlwinds, Nolan?

[canoeman61]

Just about everything I wanted to say here has been said. Yes, buy Blackfly Canoes to keep in business the one company that is creating new designs. I would like to add about Esquif that I have never seen a canoe that had as much thought put into all of its features as the L'Edge. The guys that designed started on the basis of WWFD (What Would Frankie Design) but they took canoe design to new heights. That I think paved the way for Blackfly, the Option, etc. I sure hope the L'Edge mold winds up in responsible hands who will use it.

[chuck naill]

This idea of going back to basics and learning to paddle around rocks is going to work for the vast majority of boaters who paddle up to about grade 4 on bigger volume rivers.

For the minority that are pushing the envelope to catch up with the extreme kayakers running steeper and lower volume stuff sometimes the line presents a really significant chance of slamming your boat onto a rock if you are just a little bit off it, sometimes the line requires you to slam your boat into a rock, lean onto your elbow pad and spin the boat off again.
These guys are already pushing beyond the punishment Royalex will take and really require PE boats, but for the rest of us is Royalex a necessity or a convenience?

When I was young and the father of three young children, the idea of trashing my canoe on a weekend run would have ended my paddling. I went around rocks so I would be able to continue to paddle.

One thing I remember about Dagger Ocoee models is they were all oil canned. I was told they were thinner than the Blue Hole hulls. I never had one, just an observation. I never remember seeing a BH with an oil canned hull.

Jeremy just sent as email that he got my deposit, so I can't wait to get the "lime green" BF. However, I will paddle it as much as possible so I will not need to buy another too soon.

[yarnellboat]

Just noted Esquif's ad in the current edition of Rapid Magazine...

"'T-Formex'... To: Canoeing, From: Esquif"

Made me sad.

Not a lot of offerings for the heavier crowd, so I really hope to see somebody keep making the L'Edge Lite.

Thanks Esquif!

P.