curious about c1

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col. mustard
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curious about c1

Post by col. mustard »

Just wanting some input on c1 paddling. Pros/cons, etc. Why does one favor c1 over oc1 etc. Interested in discovering the possibilities of paddling a new type of boat.
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busterblue
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Re: curious about c1

Post by busterblue »

Here are my very subjective observations. (I've OC'd an Outrage and L'edge. I've C1'd an Atom, Cascade, Amp, and Remix)

C1 Pros:
- Smaller profile boats
- More play, more reactive, less boat to move around
- Paddling in 3 dimensions
- Cheaper to find a good used kayak hull to convert
- More fun for me personally on continuous, splashy rapids
- I feel like I learned more, faster when I started to C1

OC1 Pros:
- More stable
- More comfortable
- Easier to store gear
- More momentum to blast through holes
- Very fun and satisfying to navigate the larger boat through rapids
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Dave.E
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Re: curious about c1

Post by Dave.E »

I recently got into C1 and am slowly paddling it more and more. I find it much more forgiving and have a lot more confidence in it. I still open boat a lot but generally save it for groups where I'm not the only canoe and for rivers that I have run a lot and like the added challenge.

You'll hear a bunch of different opinions, here's mine.

Pros C1:
- Skirt keeps water out, taking on water won't be an issue. If you flip, you roll up without water
- MUCH easier to roll
- Many different hulls to choose from
- Cheaper
- Faster (no dumping, less scouting)
- Seal launch doesn't fill your boat up

Cons C1:
- Lower saddle, uncomfortable
- Takes longer to get in the boat

Pros OC1
- Added challenge of taking on water
- Easier entry/exit
- Swag
- Comfort

Cons OC1
- Added challenge of taking on water
- Added challenge of slower roll
- Expensive
busterblue wrote: C1 Pros:
- I feel like I learned more, faster when I started to C1
THIS

Dave
https://vimeo.com/user32086287" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Paddle Power
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Re: curious about c1

Post by Paddle Power »

C1 Pros:
- fits inside a VW
- very reactive, good for learning
- it's easier to move around a lighter boat, great for small paddlers
- decked paddling is warmer so it's good early and late season
- steep learned curve so you learn fast
- easier to boat at kayak friendly sites
- easier to roll
- good for small feature sites or low water conditions

OC1 Pros:
- easier to pack and trip (multi day whitewater)
- more comfortable, especially for teaching
- easier and faster to jump in and out of
- easier to adjust outfitting for sharing or demoing your boat
- historically easier to outfit
- faster and more momentum, to surf waves or blast through holes
- easier to make one OC a jack of all trades boat compared to one C1
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Re: curious about c1

Post by kaz »

Try one yourself and you'll know your answer.
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col. mustard
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Re: curious about c1

Post by col. mustard »

I should've mentioned that I've been in an oc1 for about 3 years now. I'm about 6' 2" and 225lbs, what would be a good c1 (budget friendly) to start on?
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Re: curious about c1

Post by col. mustard »

Also, I use a 58" paddle now, I'm guessing that would need to change? Shorter maybe?
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Dave.E
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Re: curious about c1

Post by Dave.E »

col. mustard wrote:Also, I use a 58" paddle now, I'm guessing that would need to change? Shorter maybe?
Yea. I use shorter for c1. Just base it off your saddle... If your open boat has a sadale of 8" and your c1 is 6" you'll be comfortable with a 2" shorter paddle.

For me:
L'edge 8" saddle 56" paddle
Stomper 5" saddle 54" paddle
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col. mustard
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Re: curious about c1

Post by col. mustard »

How hard is it to wet exit from a c1?
col. mustard
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Re: curious about c1

Post by col. mustard »

And thanks for all the killer info. Keep it coming. Think I'll soon be in the market for a c1.
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Dave.E
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Re: curious about c1

Post by Dave.E »

col. mustard wrote:How hard is it to wet exit from a c1?
Not hard at all. But totally depends on your outfitting and comfort level. I have double straps, knee bracket thing and hip pads. Never had a problem exciting.

Some people would argue that it is sketchy. Have to pull a skirt and strap quick release. All within my personal comfort level and lung capacity.
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johnd
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Re: curious about c1

Post by johnd »

C1 pros:

--Can afford the used kayak to convert (deciding factor)



C1 cons:

--Have to wear a dress
--Have to have the dress custom made
--Grimacing in pain the entire time you're paddling
--Good luck figuring out the outfitting
--If you do manage to figure out outfitting that will hold you in, you may not be able to get out
--Unwanted stepchild, misfit paddler for both camps, canoeist and kayakers
--You think you can run harder runs than a canoe only to find out that C1 is harder so you end up running easier runs
--Stuck with the boat forever because no one wants it
JimW
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Re: curious about c1

Post by JimW »

Biggest difference for me is a mental difference in perception of how easy it is or isn't to get out of a C1.

First you have to pull the spray deck which is the same as for a kayak.
Next depends on how you outfit it:
- Mat was able to paddle his Stomper just using the bulkhead and no strap (after a very long wet exit in the Spean gorge when he couldn't find the strap and decided to try without for the rest of the trip), the old Slasher my Uni club had was just a bulkhead fit without straps and was possible to control (although it was not good outfitting by modern custom standards). If you just use a bulkhead, you just wriggle out, no additional steps.
- If you fit straps there are as many preferences as there are boats! Some are easy to get out of than others, but bear in mind if you are in a converted kayak the cockpit is pretty long so you probably have plenty of wiggle room.
- You can run a strap through a slack centre loop and use just one release
- You can run separate straps to separate releases and join them with a rip cord so they both release with one pull
- You can run separate straps to completely independant releases

I really don't do much C1, I only have slalom/ex-slalom boats which are too small for me and I have a bit of contortion to get my feet past the saddle (I have pared them down lots!), until recently I paddled them with 2 straps with completely independant releases and I never needed to release more than 1 strap to be able to get out. I don't know what the hades goes on underwater, but once one strap is off I manage to slip out of the other - getting my feet out of the boat is another issue! Having started paddling C1 a bit again I found that despite knowing I had never released more than 1 I still had confidence issues so changed to a system where I can release both at once using camlock buckles, the only thing I don't like about them is trying to get the straps tight enough, they always slip a bit as I close the buckle.

In my Ocoee the straps are set so I can tuck my knees under or pop them out without ever adjusting or undoing the straps which is much less daunting. :D

As for differences actually paddling them, it would be pointless my comparing slalom boats I am too heavy for with the Ocoee, having the edges of a slalom boat too close to the water add a whole extra dimension compared to a converted creek boat, and I've never tried a converted creek boat. :)
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Re: curious about c1

Post by Wodza »

I bought a cheap C1 that I found on a gearswap that was not outfitted very well. I was too loose to roll consistently but too tight to get out easily. I tried a lap belt but didn't like that either. As a result I never ended taking it out when I had the time to paddle.

Recently I bought a Wavesport Score to outfit. I took my time and set the outfitting up -in my opinion- really well. I have only been in the pool with it once and on the river once. Having the outfitting setup how I like it makes a huge difference in confidence in the boat. The Score is a completely different animal than I'm used to paddling which caused me to flip a lot. However being tight yet able to get out easily gave me the confidence to roll and then attempt a few more times if I missed the first roll. Turned out to be the most fun I've had on a river so far. Not saying the outfitting I have will be right for you but finding the outfitting that works best for you can really change the experience.

Here is a link to photos of my outfitting if you're interested:

http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/hollywodz/library/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am going to upgrade the release by making a nylon loop similar to a grab loop of a skirt and velcro them together to make it a one motion release.

Point being: It may be obvious, but getting the outfitting right makes a huge difference in enjoyment.
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busterblue
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Re: curious about c1

Post by busterblue »

I recently did the same run in a C1 and open boat. It was a fun comparison. Some of my lines were better in the open boat. But I blew a few lines also that my C1 would have forgiven.

Canyon Creek open boat:
http://youtu.be/H2rm8TGltxs

Canyon Creek C1:
http://youtu.be/p5LXTQ9Xh1I
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