Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

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Wodza
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Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by Wodza »

Just wondering if a Dagger Genesis is similar to a Mohawk XL 13.

I'm trying to help a friend of mine find a boat. He is a short but heavy guy probably 240-260lbs and maybe 5'-6" to 5'-8". He tried a Rival but it didnt seem to react well to his weight. He is looking forsomething more traditional than the L'edge or Octane.

Any thoughts regarding his weight and a somewhat traditional feel on:

Recon
Vertige/Vertige X
Outrage X
XL 12 or 14
The other Dagger's other than the rival
Or something im not aware of.

Thanks
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yarnellboat
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Re: Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by yarnellboat »

I'd say Outrage X because he's not a tall guy - a Genesis etc. would work best for tall guys too. But if he didn't like the Rival, the Outrage X is probably in the same camp. Anyway, because of his height in wider hulls, I guess I'd go with something like an Outrage X and hope it comes to feel more stable/comfy.

Pat.
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Re: Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by ezwater »

Going back to the original question, I don't think the Mohawk XL and the Dagger Genesis are much like each other. The XLs are porky, rounded hulls, slow, not great handlers, but without serious vices (other than being dated). The Genesis is a better flatwater cruiser, but so-so by today's standards as a ww canoe. One thing about both boats, the used hulls out there are old, and likely to be brittle as well as worn.

I got to try an Outrage X on an easy slalom course, and it was reasonably agile and well-behaved. Not as flat or chiney as one might like, but a good river runner.

The Rival is a bit small for his weight. It is a roundish hull, said to be easy to roll, but probably won't do flying ferries as well as Bob Foote's later design, the Esquif Paradigm.

When he finds a boat, don't let him put the pedestal too far back. A short guy can handle a wider boat if able to reach forward where the bow narrows, to take the catch. Save him from a career paddling around with his bow in the air.
DougB
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Re: Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by DougB »

I agree with Pat on the Outrage X. I'm a fan of the regular outrage. At 215 lbs, as are all those new paddlers who try it out. Unless the x is a world of difference it might be a good starting point. I have a Vertige that I use for tripping. I'm easily over 260 lbs with my gear and it carries the weight with ease, however it lacks any playboat feel and is disappointing when used for this purpose. Stay away from the Vert X as a solo. I had one of these as well and can't say much positive about it.
pblanc
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Re: Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by pblanc »

I think either an XL 13 or a Genesis would handle his weight fine. The XL 13 was a quite popular boat back in the day, and I paddled one a fair bit, but never owned one. I demoed a Genesis on the Nanatahala once shortly after they were introduced. It felt too big for me but I was only about 165 lbs at the time.

I recently set up an old XL 13 for a friend who is in about the same weight range. I tested the outfitting by paddling it on some flat water. Actually, by today's standard of whitewater boat, the XL 13 is not that slow, especially in comparison with today's short poly creekers. It's relatively modest rocker puts much of its overall length in the water. It is a big boat though, and is certainly not "quick" to paddle up to speed. It is full in the ends and quite dry and forgiving.

Some other boats that might show up on occasion that seemed to suit big guys include the Dagger Caper, Dagger (now Mad River) Caption, Whitesell Piranha (and maybe the Descender), Mohawk Probe 14, Bell Prodigy X, or maybe even a Blue Hole Sunburst II.
milkman
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Re: Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by milkman »

Have any of the big guys out there paddled an Esquif Raven? I'm just curious how that might be for the pushing 250 crowd.
avlclimber
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Re: Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by avlclimber »

Recon might be great but few used ones out there.

Probe 13 is stable and agile.

Esquif blast solo is a solid boat for a bigger guy.

Vertige X, perhaps? Solid traditional design.

the Outrage X is a lackluster boat, but is available cheep as a result. It does probably respond better than the XL series.
2opnboat1
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Re: Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by 2opnboat1 »

I would say go witht he Probe 13, and if he decides to get an XL narrow it by about 1.25 inchs.
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Re: Dagger Genesis and Mohawk XL 13

Post by Paddle Power »

I'm not a big fan of the XL.
The Probe 13 would be a better option.
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