Stuck in an offside carve

[Shep]

In my Taureau, it takes more than one stroke to break out of the offside carve if it starts to go over the top. I start with the offisde sweep stroke, and I start to flatten the boat (disengage the chine). If I just leave it there, it will start to stall out, and the stern skids further to the outside of the turn I am trying to break. Instead of leaving it there, I then start to aggressively lean to the inside, and bring my paddle across to an onside static bow draw. This generally finishes breaking the offside carve. As soon as the carve is definitely broken, I can paddle forward. Doesn't work in a long boat though.

Hope this helps,
Shep

[Bob P]

When I'm trying to push the bow to the onside, I shorten up the stroke into a bow sweep, occasionally finishing up with a stern draw. Doing offside sweep drills in my C1 helps develop those mostly unused sweep muscles.
http://www.youtube.com/ctcboater#p/u/18/tpJVAaOLG98

[Larry Horne]

what is an offside carve?

[gumpy]

don't listen to larry.

we've all dealt with this, it's a neccesary step in the learning process.

the key is to anticipate...see it coming! you're switching sides one stroke late. really focus here, on minute changes in your boats' direction of travel.

practice, practice, practice.

[TheKrikkitWars]

Don't bother learning convoluted corrective strokes that require you to contort yourself like a pretzel, fighting the water is a mugs game.


Learn to paddle uncorrected on both on and off sides in a straight line;

At the same time as that start doing drills to feel just how much edge you've got to give to do what, and where the resistance from your paddle needs to be to carve each kind of turn (it could be in by your hip, out to the side of your hip, way out toward the bow, or somewhere in the middle).

Once you've got the forward technique and the feel for where you'd want to put a duffek stroke during carving a particular turn, you can work on paddling forward through the turn so that the moment the blade reaches the point in the water you'd like to be turning round, is the moment it's generating maximum power...

As an interim measure (because I can't think of a boater I know who would pass up whitewater for a flatwater drills session, even if they had something they wanted to improve on) avoid carving agressively to your offside, and try working with the flat of your hull more?

EDIT: even better interim measure inspired by my recent WWR obsession - take a paddle stroke or two on your onside whilst continuing to edge to your offside... maybe even use onside power with an offside lean to drive and initiate the turns you want to make?

[Paddle Power]

Also read up on Andrew Westwood's 2 x 4 stroke technique.

Search this forum, for example
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7964050" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and see
http://westwoodoutdoors.ca/2010/02/24/c ... -westwood/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[FullGnarlzOC]

cross bow sweep - once it turns back to onside - hammer away with foward strokes and quick stern prys at the end of the strokes as needed. Trick when you are starting is to not let the boat careeen off to the offside.


Work on that cross stroke.

[hankrankin]

what is an offside carve?

[sbroam]

what is an offside carve?

When you are right handed and have to cut off the turkey's left side drumstick.

[philcanoe]

don't listen to larry.

we've all dealt with this, it's a neccesary step in the learning process.

the key is to anticipate...see it coming! you're switching sides one stroke late. really focus here, on minute changes in your boats' direction of travel.

practice, practice, practice.

Thinking this is your best piece of advise so far..... Drive your boat around like it's a car, instead of reacting to what's already happened.... unless of course the large steaming pile of dog doo has already hit the fan.

[Kelvin]

Nice thread Trex!

I was hoping the the Sweet-Skills videos would be of some help but Kelvin seems to be a little behind schedule.

Ha, yes we are. A little. The free articles are in there final proof read and should be up by the end of the week, at last!

The offside to onside carving transition can be seen on flat water at 1:40 on the http://www.sweet-skills.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; trailer, then in a moving water context right after. The offside sweep is a fantastic trick to have up your sleeve but a couple of subtleties have to be considered. I am going to break the sweep into four quarters, and look at on and offside together: think of a full onside sweep, bow all the way to the stern. Split this into two when the paddle shaft is 90 degrees from the keel line. With the offside you have four quarters.

Once the boat is turning whilst going faster than the flow (carving or skidding) the bow quarter is inefficient when sweeping. Therefore it makes little sense to sweep at the bow in this context. Here's how it works: drive the boat on a forward stroke (no sweep) and end it at the knee, then slice the blade away from the boat by dropping the T-grip hand low, now sweep in the stern quarter! Note that the top hand goes most of the work with the bottom hand acting as more of a fulcrum. This works well both on and offside.

As suggested in this thread it also works well to 'whip' round to a little stern pry, you may surprise yourself in the speed in which this can be done!

Edge: a flat hull will release the carve easier but hinders the most effective position for the blade, a compromise has to be made here to maximise overall efficiency.

Hope this helps,

Kelvin.

[philcanoe]

... exposed another problem I can't seem to correct. Now that I can get some power with my cross forward stroke I get stuck in an offside carve that is uncontrollable. I can't over power it or stroke further from the boat to open up the circle. .... Any suggestions on what to concentrate on to fix this problem would be appreciated.

You might try an underwater recovery....

... not saying that some of what said has been wrong, or to not try some of these. For there are often different ways to accomplish the same thing, especially considering the number of various conditions we arrive at.

However this is one way - which once learned will make your cross forward easier, and will provide that missing control you asked for. Start by finishing your cross stroke (perhaps between your knee and hip) and then twist the paddle 90degrees. So that your blade is parallel to current (in line with) with the power side facing to your choice (I do both - as need be). Now simply slide paddle forward, twist 90degrees again back to normal, and cross forward stoke again. Repeat as needed. And rather soon this will feel normal.

Your blade will actually act as a forward rudder, and thus will control the bow while stroking back forward. You will not get all crossed up, or hung out, as "the offside carve" will be in complete control. It is normal to feel water flutter against the blade, and varies according to blade type/construction. Before long you will be sliding the blade with tilt (something other than parallel) to actually steer into a desired curve (and will thus use it - to steer while offside). This will also work while onside as well, for instance when you need both correction and need a forward stroke nearly simultaneously. And yes - this works well with both spoon and flat blade paddles. Usually best to keep paddle near vertical, until moving on to more advanced-intermediate level use. Watch slalom C1 racers, they roll these off with in rapid fire repetition .... all day long. At first it will want to wander, just go slow to get use to this new motion, and then pick up on the forward shove. It should feel solid in the water - (just like your stern rudder) - and will eventually allow you to isolate your lower body and add various leans into the mix.

... Good Luck -n- Have Fun.


(Warning: There's a good chance you will eventually use this 'way' more than an offside rudder/pry - so much that you might have to remember to use something else, as they become automatic.)

[yarnellboat]

Oh oh. I don't like where this has gone!....

Let's see, instead of an offside forward sweep . . . on the cross-stroke... recover with the powerface out (top thumb back)... and a apply pressure (pry) during recovery...

Yup, oh-oh, I believe Phil is taking us back to the ol' "X-J" that FullG invented!

Personally, having been corrected about it when I would get tangled up during some cross strokes, I can only do good offside recoveries when my top thumb rotates to point forward (i.e., powerface facing the hull). When bringing the blade forward in a recovery phase, I can't generate much useful pressure to counteract a skidding boat. Drawing during recovery, yes; prying, not so much.

We should've left well enough alone with the advice to anticipate it! Making the micro corrections quickly is key. As said, reacting to something once you're one-stroke too late is the big problem, and you'll spend a lot of energy fighting the carve once you've really lost it - especially if you're contorting your arms to do a X-J (or a 'running offside bow pry'?) during recovery! I think I'd rather do a 360 and start over!

Search for an oldie-but-goodie thread on "X-J" if you want much more banter on this stroke option! I'll stick with sweeps (or 360s).

Pat.

[eddyhops]

Yup, oh-oh, I believe Phil is taking us back to the ol' "X-J" that FullG invented!

uh oh...

[Cheeks]

Yup, oh-oh, I believe Phil is taking us back to the ol' "X-J" that FullG invented!

uh oh...

Christ...

Naw I'm just kidding. I'm not sure if it's a xJ, but I'm a fan of the in-water recovery too. A local instructor told me to try it at a pool session and I believe that the little power it bleeds is canceled out by the benefit of having the boat track better. It really helps with figure 8s and what not.