modified or Cut Down Ocoee

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:23 am

I've been reading threads on here where its mentioned that people have modified or 'cut down' their Ocoee. I've not been able to find anything explaining the why/hows about it though. Can someone shed some light?
Many thanks!

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:30 am

Before the day of shorter canoes... that was one way to get one. Especially for rodeo/hole playing, where they got chopped up every which way. Some in half and put back together, so as to fit in a hole and also spin better. Some in height, so they would stand up faster - think old-school ender. And some in both ways. Haven't seen this done lately, not in many moons.

Smurfwarrior · Post by **Smurfwarrior** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:43 am

Ok, gotcha.. makes sense

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:47 am

We cut them down (bow & stern) so the ends were about an 1" higher than the stock center height and pulled the thwarts in considerably. The tighest and most hard edged Ocoee I ever paddled belongs to Andrew Westwood... it's quite snappy.

You can see boats like Phil is referring to in the book "Thrill of the Paddle" that Mark Scriver and Paul Mason had... some were two different boats cut in half... sectioned and expoxied back together... if memory serves they were in the 9-10ft range. According to Mark and Paul they were pretty unstable... but good in a hole or on a wave.

Tweaked Ocoee's can be terribly fun boats... especially if you paddle on the type of rivers that won't chew up the Royalex quickly.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:46 am

That's exactly how the Rodeo (Mohawk) came into being. It was a Viper originally, and the middle was removed....surprised, probably not. On the very first ones, the ends were first hacked at a severe angle. So that they pointed down, and midship was left higher. Sound familiar! And rodeo rules came into being...and Ian came out with the Massive line. And then rodeo rules really got debated and the loopholes tighten. This was before the sport was called freestyle. ....And now there's the Blackfly. (a sanitized and abbreviated history in one short paragraph)

The cutting progression I saw... was Viper, then Ocoee... although several years before, Cliff Earl did the same thing to make the Old-Town Otter - from a Kennebec (?seemed like?)... paddled it once, his was named Rodney (as in Dangerfield) if memory serves me right.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:47 pm

philcanoe wrote:...and the middle was removed....

aka... the stable part of the boat

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:49 pm

Once down at Frankie shop he had a great ride in a cut down Ocoee at the first day of the Ocoee rodeo.That evenin back at his shop I think there must have been five or six guys with Frankies router ( shop tool not a computer term) lowering the ends of their boats. I think it was the next year that the first Ocoee show up with a section cut out of the middle. Even with me gettin free boats I couldn't bring myself to cut up an Ocoee just for a one day a year event in hades hole. Besides the onlyreason I was in the rodeo was to give my buddies a break inbetween their turns.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:56 pm

...and I thought it was for the pre-event festivities?

Louie · Post by **Louie** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:59 pm

well of course but that goes with out sayin.

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:11 pm

You know that's something the deck-boaters never did get right... they always were so serious, and we always met up - discussed things properly... one to one, face to face... everyone taking part in the discussion, no one that wanted to - ever got left out... seems like once or twice, they had to delay the start a moment or two - after a round of heated discussion... but then - we all just smiled, and had a good time!

cadster · Post by **cadster** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:26 pm

A boater in Colorado was paddling a cut down Ocoee this summer.

I think John Graye did the modification and used it as a start for his Solito.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:33 pm

In that regard Phil... not much has changed. The boats have... but the spirit and comeraderie didn't from my vantage point. There's no sense taking yourself so seriously when the focus is on having fun and trying to one up your buddies.

Now I'm kind've missing my old Ocoee... thanks a lot

This is the last one I had that was cut and pulled... but it was never quite as stiff as the first one before they changed the Royalex.

This one belongs to Craig Reidner...

Do keep in mind though that the more you cut the ends down... the wetter your ride is going to be on occasion. I weighed the pieces I cut off my old boat and it was about 6lbs worth... so the swing weight of the end's obviously drops a tad. If you are running class II through lite class IV it's ok... but I don't know that I'd go and do it again today. One more thing... cutting the ends lower made it a bit easier to whip the paddle over going to a crossforward.

Here's one for Phil... why are the ends on an Edge so low in comparison to most other boats?

philcanoe · Post by **philcanoe** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:02 pm

cadster wrote:A boater in Colorado was paddling a cut down Ocoee this summer.

I think John Graye did the modification and used it as a start for his Solito.

no.... no.... no.....

While John may have had a cut down Ocoee... this is what John did.
This is the Solito, it was taken by him (in his own shop).

I talked with John on the phone too many times, emailed too much, and discussed the project in person enough to know.

Among the many things John did in his lifetime, he was a surflboard shaper in Hawaii before, moving to Colorado and building canoes. I believe it was with Hobie. He was quite the Craftsman, extremely talented with his hands, and had an eye for detail. He asked me questions about molding building and and building boats in general... and in exchange he helped me to cleanup up my work, and as a result mine became - much more cosmetically pleasing.

Yes - he probably used dimensions from other boats. Yes - he had paddled an Ocoee... However, John definitely built the Solito using wood strips.

Craig Smerda · Post by **Craig Smerda** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:28 pm

John was a helluva' good guy.

http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic. ... ght=solito

AJ · Post by AJ » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:00 pm

All this John talk, brings a tear to my eye and lump in my throat. Our crew member, Ken Metzger, still has his cut down Dagger Ocoee and paddles it on occasion.

Being laid up with the healing achilles, I watched the two Colorado C-Boating videos that I made. John stared in them paddling his Solito on the South Platte - Foxton, Arkansas - Numbers, Boulder Creek, and Taylor River - Upper/Upper sections. Fun to watch him making sweet moves on the river.

Larry Rice fired up a John Graye Memorial paddle this summer on the Roaring Fork - Slaughterhouse section. The sky was blue, the air was warm, and the water was crystal clear.

We started the day with a few words to our friend, his sole mate Sally put his ashes into the river, and we floated with his spirit! OC-1ers took over Slaughterhouse that day and I look forward to next year's John Graye Memorial Paddle!