C-Forum

Well I am just about to drop $$ on a new one. Any comments? I am 214lbs, class II-III open boater with too many years of experience in a 1980 Mad River ME, kneeling thwart and no straps. I can get the ME in the hole and spin, but I am looking for something with the "New Hotness" that can get a little more play in the holes and waves, and roll up. A little help?

Over the last two years a friend and I both traded up to Ocoees. Dave from a Rival and me from a Phantom. We are both VERY pleased with the boat - a nice combination of dryness, manoeuverability, and stability. Neither of us find it edgy in a bad sense, but when it carves a turn, wow. Probably a reason it is still in production after all these years.

I have heard some nice things about the Paradigm, but only paddled it on flat water. It looked like a big Phantom to me, but didn't feel like one. Faster and with some secondary stability. I understand that the seat placement is less fixed (one sweet spot) than in other boats, depending whether you want speed and tracking or turning. Test drive a bunch before you buy.

I have tried and liked the Ocoee, and Rival. I paddled the Paradigm on flat water and was impressed by the primary and secondary stability. The bottom looks like it could surf well. Any other thoughts?

any other comments?

A Mohawk Viper 11 is between the Ocoee and Rival in performance and has good initial stability. Yey it will carve very well too. I believe the Mohawk serires of boats are a good bit less expensive than the Esquif's as well. . However, mohawks production have had internal problems as of late. Maybe they have worked it out by now. Also Have you tied a Mad river Outrage? Thats a super boat as well.

kx250guy wrote:A Mohawk Viper 11 is between the Ocoee and Rival in performance and has good initial stability. Yey it will carve very well too. I believe the Mohawk serires of boats are a good bit less expensive than the Esquif's as well. . However, mohawks production have had internal problems as of late. Maybe they have worked it out by now. Also Have you tied a Mad river Outrage? Thats a super boat as well.

How's the Outrage for someone 215#?? I'm not sure.

Anyone have time in, or opinions on the Paradigm?

Paddled one briefly in flatwater. At 230, I was mashing the boat down noticeably. At 215lbs, I'd advise you to definitely try before you buy.

Slov

I just paddled a Paradigm on class IV whitewater yesterday in Switzerland and I didn't really like it that much. I'm around 190 lbs, 6'4" and somewhat experienced.

The Paradigm carves, spins and accelerates well. It's stable and can be leaned with confidence right down to the gunnel touching the water. The high sides all around and the round bow make for a dry run. So all this might add up to a good whitewaterboat, but...

BUT: Although it accelerates quickly it's not a nimble and fast boat. It tracks okay and slightly leaned carves into eddies nicely, but it tends to stick to a line and once you want to turn off it, it's very hard to get the boat around. Although rather dry, once you've got some water in it (1.5 to 2" inside is already too much) the Paradigm becomes really slow, sluggish and even harder to turn than empty (watch out you guys with over 200lbs...). On slow eddy turns it tends to get stuck right on the bubbly eddy fence, you always need speed to cut across that line. The high sides blocked somewhat my freedom to paddle, I hit my fingers on the gunnel a few times. For that I have to say that in the demo boat I paddled the saddle was cut down approx. 1 - 1.5". The saddle and outfitting seemed to be installed in a rather forward position (I was told that this helps beginners to cope with tracking), 3 - 4" further back might have made the difference for me.

Last, I think it's not the "hottest" boat, I don't like the boxy, coffin-shaped look. Get a Zoom! From all of the Esquif boats (and I paddled them all!) I think that would be the one I would get myself (although I know, some of you guys hate it!).

I don't think that the Zoom is necessarily the ticket for a 215lbs paddler coming from a ME.

Definitely try before you buy before you buy.

martin a.k.a. the great gonzo!

At 214lbs if you were interested in a Viper, I would go with the Viper 12. It would be a little faster and a bit edgier. The Mohawk Shaman is about the same price new, and would carry your weight well. The MR Outrage X would also handle your weight if the regular Outrage feels too small. I would try to test paddle an Outrage if at all possible, before you buy anything.

Although most people here will consider it hopelessly outdated, I would consider trying a Dagger Encore if you could find one. It is a great boat for your weight range, and one of the easiest open boats to roll. It will also seem less foreign to you, coming from an ME than the newer, shorter boats.

As a former (and once again) ME driver of similar size, I can say with some certainty that a Zoom will be quite an adjustment. I'd guess the same for a Paradigm on *moving* water. I'd guess a Shaman and Outrage would be more similar, if you don't want to change gears to the flat bottomed/hard chined school. I'll throw in another vote for the Viper 12, though if you are looking to get into something shorter consider the Zephyr, Ocoee, Detonator (or is it Nitro? I always forget which is bigger) and maybe the Prelude ( ).

Try before you buy as much as you can in conditions as close to what you will want to paddle in.

Just my $.02

Wow, where are Marshall and Squeaky?
The James must have water in it.

I don't know anything about this boat, but some seem to think that it doesn't do exactly what it was intended to do. Search the forums for "Paraturd" and "Parakeet."

Everybody loves their Zephyr, I gotta say.

no experience with the boat myself but I heard from some of the class particpants that Mr. Foote was paddling a Zephyr at his clinics this year. I was told more but since it is second hand I'll leave that to those who know to answer.

At the Fayette Station takeout:

Walsh: "Sounds like they wanted to make a harder-edged boat than the Zephyr, but the molding process didn't cooperate."

Jim P: "That, and they only offer it in that horrible lime-green color. The color might be why they called it the Para-turd on the board."

Walsh: "Speaking of which, I need to go use the restroom."

Jim P: "I hope it's not green . . . and that it doesn't have hard edges."