Zephyr outfitting or lack of...

[oc1paddlr]

help. last month wife got a new zephyr. took it the lake about an hour for a trial run (she's a yak'r) . Put the boat inside waiting for better water levels. Friday we leave for a 5 day trip based out of the nantie area and I discover the thigh straps are peeling out, as in 'all by themselves'. I know this was a twin-tex problem but by now it seems they should have fixed it. Now it's my problem. Any ideas... the boat is new from NOC , I think/hope they fix this, but we are out of a boat for our trip. And if you think this is bad, just wait til I tell Alice... Ideas or help welcome...(about the boat, I already know about Alice)

[ChrisKelly]

Devcon Plastic Welder. it is available at Wal Mart and at any number of auto stores like O'Rielly's etc.

It says it bonds to ABS, among many other materials. It also says it does not bond to polyethylene or polypropylene.

But, before you do anything call Esquif and ask them what they used and ask them what they suggest.

I think the Plastic Welder may work but no guarentes.

It is made by ITW and sold under several trade names including Plastic Welder (Wal Mart) and Plastic Welding System. It is a two part glue and sets up off white.

I have not used it on Twin tex. I don't know if Esquif has. I have used it with excellent results on Royalite and Royalex.

The reason to think it will bond is the fiberglass fiber in the twintex. The reason to think it won't is the polyethylene in the twintex.

Be sure to sand well to allow the glue to bond with the fiber.

Look, I am interested in how this works because I am interested in boats, boat outfitting and repair. I have a THEORY that this glue will work but don't know. I don't want you to mess up your boat to prove or disprove my theory. It is much easier to clean up a failed theory than a failed glue job so be warned. Talk to Esquif first.

Chris Kelly

[bushpaddler]

As far as I know Esquif suggests 2 comp. 3M Bond for Polypropylene, it's called 5008 or 8005 or something similar.
I'd call them and ask, if you get answer please share.

Thanks
Florian

[greybear]

Red Boat Ready:
Flying Squirrel here, I have a Zephyr same issue, everyone says use a bulkhead but when your like me and you already own the boat that is not an choice. I am trying to catch up with Eli but my schedule and his is very busy, my knee pads stay in for a trip or two them they're out and I clean the glue off them, the glue never sticks to the boat. The 3M glue has to have a speical applicator to use all togther it cost a lot of money but Esquif will do for free, just contact them and Eli will try to meet you somewhere, I know he will be teaching a wilderness med class somewhere in western north carolina this summer. My thigh straps are starting to come up I just hope they will hold through till mid July. That being said my Zephyr is the only boat that have been happy with its performance since my Ocoee died. Do you still have your Ocoee?

[sbroam]

Ditto on the glue - the one that works is that 3m stuff with the expensive gun - Eli will do it for you, but you have to be in the same place at the same time... It's also a fix that takes some time - it's not a glue that sets instantly... You'll need new d-rings, too - I was cautioned about trying to reuse the original ones. However -

Ditto on the bulkhead - I really like mine, but it is not a quick fix unless you have one you can drop in (like comes from the factory in some Zephyrs)

Have you contacted the NOC? They usually do a good job of making things right. Maybe they have the glue and applicator...

[philinasheville]

Not sure what it costs, but my Zephyr came with this. I really like it:

http://belugaworld.com/?p=produits.item&pid=43&pg=4

Also, you may consider returning your wife's Zephyr to NOC in exchange for one factory outfitted with the beluga saddle. The downside is that you may have to wait, but the upside is that it should be cheaper and stay in place.

Good luck,

Phil

[ezwater]

I was warned by NOC that, because of my height and thigh size, the bulkhead setup might not work for me. I would have to carve away so much foam from the bulkhead that I would not have enough left.

However, if they would give me a discount, I'm sure I could come up with a tight enough setup without a full bulkhead or thigh straps. My current open, a MR Synergy, is almost the same width, and I am held in place well by a padded thwart over the thighs, knee cups, knee spreader wedges, and the back of the seat cutout. Plenty tight for control, maybe not tight enough for a second roll, but if I were planning to roll, I would take a c-1.

[squeakyknee]

I think the bulkhead can be adapted to all size paddlers with a little care and some extra foam glued in for support.
I would suggest contacting Esquif as well ,and perhaps asking them to supply you with one as a warranty replacement for the problem. seems like an acceptable treadeoff to me.Especially considering the price of the boat...
as far as the glue, the stuff is pricey and it may be difficult to catch up with Eli ,though I know he would be more than happy to help you out.
I'm still skeptical that this new glue will hold over time, and wouldn't trade my bulkhead setup for anything.
Perhaps some indusrial strength Velcro and some fuzzy pants would do the trick

[greybear]

When I got my Zephyr, I tried both the straps and the bulkhead, I prefered the straps, thats just what I am used to, the bulk responds to every move you make, sometimes that could be a good thing, and them sometimes well you know what I mean. I your wife in coverting for a kayak stick with the straps, it will be easer for her. If she is serious about OC-1 the bulkhead might be a route to take. NOC help if this issue, maybe you'll get lucky and catch one of the better sales people. NOC doesnt carry the glue nor do many hardware, I was left with a choice to buy online for some place in midwest which with shipping glue, gun, and something elese needed would have been around $120.00, or more I can't remeber. If you can hold out for Eli, he will fix the problem but he is busy, but on the plus side if he is near a river your wife might get a chance to paddle with him and that could help her covert to our side.

[dennisstream]

I had the same problem with thigh strap outfitting coming out right away (1 hour). Through my dealer I contacted Esquif and they sent me glue (the 3-m stuff) , a gun and directions. I glued everything myself (using the same D rings that peeled off) and 1 year later things are still secure.

For the knee pads I just used Lepage's blue contact cement.

[ChrisKelly]

if Esquif will do that.

[Detonator Function]

A bulkhead saddle costs about $225. Esquif and Beluga both have one, and the beluga saddle is called the Appaloosa. Just remember that your cost will inevitably include the thwarts needed to hold the saddle down.

I think this was mentioned, but I wonder if the sun during shipping and just sitting around has a negative impact on the glue. If nothing else, that's something tangible to blame the failures on.

I think Eli's schedule is at paddlelink.com. It's rough, but straightforward.

[oc1paddlr]

thanks for all the interest and info. The boat has a pedestal; don't want a bulkhead "one size only" fit. That way we share. I'm no chem. whizz and don't know about 3m 0680 or8006 but I do know about $1600(re-read my part about paddled once on a lake) The sun making this happen is to laugh, but you may have a point there Cory. I'll give both Esquif and the NOC a call and let yall know what they say, esp. regarding paddling the boat this we ekend and why should I have to re-outfit a new boat. If all else fails I'll go with Dennis' MO. Also I know Eli... Yes "rockey", I'm paddin an ocoee, as a matter of fact, a new bell model this w/e maiden voyage; come splash some beer on the bow with me. and Chris and Phil. et al
and don't have any fuzzy shorts but got a fuzzy