Forward stroke blues

[Cone Bone]

I think my forward stroke needs work. I am a paddling fool, but I think I am still doing it the hard way.

I don't have enough rotation in my shoulders, and use my arms more than I should. I really don't reach forward before the plant. I think I bend my shaft elbow too much. When I really need full power, I tend to be sloppy.

I would like suggestions from those of you that think you have very good shoulder rotation during your forward stroke. Those that power through the nasty spots without using their arms more than they should. Those that feel their boat move to their paddle, not their paddle moving through the water.

What was it that made the difference when you were learning to perfect your forward stroke.

[Jim]

There are a lot of tips at http://www.bobfoote.com/technique.htm

There used to be lots of tips on the Bethesda Center for Excellence page, but those no longer appear available.

I was never too "good" with my stroke, but last year I started spending more time on flat/easy water. The real reason was a need for aerobic exercise (that is- I was getting old and fat), but I found that it really improved my technique. At least, as another self-taught paddler it feels like it has improved my technique.

Good luck,

Jim

[msims]

Actually Bob Foote travels around quite a bit and he might be in your area sometime soon.

I've heard from a few people that have taken courses with him that he is quite a good instructor. I'm going to take a course with him next year when he is in town as I've heard that he gives personalized instruction no matter what the varying abilities of the group, and pushes you as hard as you want to be pushed.

I'm pretty sure I don't qualify as one of the experts that you're after for efficient forward strokes, as I usually chicken out and brace instead of actually paddling forward but here's a good tip that always stuck w/ me. I hope that others will post on this thread as well.

One tip that helps me is "look through the window" when you reach and rotate just before you dip your paddle in the water. The paddle shaft, and the T-grip arm (bent at the elbow) should for a rough upside-down-square U ( |_| ) akin to a window frame. Have a 'look out the window' before you stroke. It's a way to encourage full hip and shoulder rotation. The 'window frame' shouldnt necessarily be square.

[the great gonzo]

Good tip Mike, I remember that one from waay back when I took a paddling technique clinic back in Switzerland with a fromer C2 slalom racer. Another tip I remember is to think of the paddle as of a pole that's driven vertically into the riverbed and you pull the boat along it.
This works well for me, every time I remember that one I put my paddle really vertically into the water and my torso rotation and all is much better that when I don't.

martin

[Longboatin']

To toss my two cents into the pot, I agree with a bit of each of the other replies. I too had a weak set of paddling skills, but through thought and practice I evolved. Force yourself to rely less on a rudder stroke, learn a correct J-stroke. An example, when paddling forward out of an eddy to catch a wave the boat starts to turn too much so you throw rudder, but it slows the forward motion, a J-stroke has minimal effect on forward motion keeping the boat on line and resulting in some wave action. Something else that plagued me was not reaching forward, or keeping the paddle ahead of me. Force yourself to reach ahead with each stroke, be aggressive. Try to wean yourself of riding a brace, it may work pretty decent on normal level runs, but if you start paddling some bigger stuff, or higher water, your sure to get balled up for lack of speed. The highest I've been on the Lower Yough is 8' and with assurance, you will want to paddle actively around any holes down there. Lastly, don't listen with abandon, to anybody that professes they can tell you the correct kind of paddle to use and teach you how to paddle too. I encountered a C-1 boater at the Yough putin. Upon talking to him about his paddle, straight shaft, curved blade, designed by the guy mentioned in one of the above replies, he asks to try out my own bent shaft paddle. I thought this was great, considering I would have liked to try his Mitchell, until he started using the bent-shaft backwards. Now what am I to think? I've been reading that the straight-shaft curved blade paddle is the way to go, it's what all the supposed gurus are saying to use, but I meet a guy using one and he doesn't even know how to hold a bent-shaft. Pretty weak. Anyway, paddling really is a personal journey. Let it flow.

[Bob P]

I find (or make) a mark on the boat where my stroke should start - placed forward enough to make me stretch with both shoulder rotation and a little forward lean. Then I spend lots of flatwater time getting my body used to the motion. Hopefully, it remembers it when I'm paddling whitewater.

[aldenb]

one idea that slalom racers do a lot: take a cone (like something workmen set up on the road, about a foot tall) and attach it to your stern by way of a string. or you can use any sort of funnel device -- i have used the top part of a liter soda bottle. anyway, attach to your stern and paddle.

this adds some real resistence to your paddling. it forces you to take longer and deeper strokes, and teaches you instinctively to use larger muscles. try doing this for a while and then taking the cone off. you'll feel strong enough to govern california!!
later
Alden

[ezwater]

Two points. First, Bob Foote's advice is good, but can be taken to extremes. Going to full shoulder rotation with an exaggerated reach of the lower arm and a spear-the-fish posture of the upper arm will waste energy on internal friction. Any time you take your limbs and your trunk to extremes, there are energy losses involved which can be reduced by just going MOST of the way to Foote's positions. If you get the CKUSA Stroke Drill video and watch Davey Hearn, or the classic 1989 video of Lugbil and Hearn in the Worlds, you will see that they rotate a lot, and reach forward plenty, but do NOT get into the extreme rotation and arm position Foote demonstrates. Moderation in everything, including doing things "right."

Second, in all the C-1s and open boats I have paddled recently, by paddling with good forward reach, moderate shoulder twist, and by extracting the blade before it passes the hip, it is possible to paddle most of the time without any J or rudder stroke at all. By pulling the blade past and using a J, you may actually be spoiling the stroke and wasting energy. Think of using the paddle to pull the boat forward by its nose.

Remember what Ford, Foote, and Dickert point out in the Drill Time video. Whitewater boats (unlike, say, a Bell Magic or Wenonah Voyageur) have a "sweet spot," a bow position cocked just a fleck toward the paddle side, and when so positioned, and paddled with good forward reach and a short stroke, the boat just loves to skate in a straight line. Oh, and you should strive for a clean blade entry and an early, firm catch.

One thing I hate to see is C-boaters humping their upper body back as they pull on the blade, and then forward as they go for the next stroke. This causes energy loss by humping the hull and checking its forward progress. Watch your bow and try to do what produces smooth motion with minimal bow rise and fall.

I point out in honesty that I am not a particularly good paddler, but at least these things are working well for me.

[Space Canoe]

Hey, C’mon, Alden, no “Gropenator” jokes OK? I have to live with him for the next three years!
I’m sorry, I don’t get how you attach the cone to the stern and your paddle; is it on top of the boat or nestled over the end of a slalom boat, or what? That sounds like something that I could use now that I’m starting to get back to stady workouts on flatwater.
I always taught to start the stroke with your shoulder instead of your arms, and if that didn’t work I took the “window” idea further by having the student look over their offside shoulder at the start of every power stroke. If you do this, your torso automatically twists.
Ric Taylor

[aldenb]

haha, sorry ric! it's just that i watched terminator last night! anyway, sorry for the confusion about the "funnel" drill. let me try to clear it up.

what you do is take something shaped like a funnel, tie it to a string, and tie the string to your stern. that way the funnel drags behind you when you paddle, creating resistence.

the funnel can be made of anything i bet. some people cut off the top half of a liter soda bottle. that didnt work so well for me, so i used one of my dad's old soccer-coach cones.

you want the string to be long enough so that you can reel it in and put the cone on your deck when you want to rest.

this workout really works for me. you'll feel A LOT stronger when you take that cone off, let me tell ya. it really teaches you to relearn the stroke.
Alden

[Sir Adam]

and I'll have to try the "cone" trick, but for short boats (like, oh, the GROOVE) simple weight shifts will start you pearling or stern squirting. Even rotation can do this if you happen to lean a tiny bit forward. So, for SHORT boats, try a short, rapid (no pun intended ) stroke, still concentrating on good catch, and even more so on making sure the bow doesn't "pump" (I thought G2D had a great description of this, and what to watch for).

[NZMatt]

Awesome comments guys! One last trick I've found is that by adjusting blade feather very slightly, I can also help compensate for turning motion and prevent the need for using a J-stroke or other correction. There's a name for this stroke (from the old Path of the Paddle books) but buggered if I can remember it.

Also, a point about teaching demonstrations. I can see what you mean, g2d, about creating internal friction by going to extremes, but remember that often, in order to get students to understand what is intended, it is necessary to exaggerate the motion. When we teach telemark, we tell students to try to put 90% of their weight on their back foot. In reality this means they might get the desirable 50:50 weight split between the front and back feet (OK the exact split to be desired could be debated, but that's for another forum...this is just as an example ). When teaching torso rotation we sometimes exaggerate it so that it is more visible and they understand. I wouldn't be surprised if that si why Bob Foote goes to extremes. I don't knwo for sure, of course, but I still want to take a class from him

Anyway...great reading....I'll be trying these tips out myself to see what effect they have. Always good to have more in the bag of tricks for teaching

Matt

[Cone Bone]

I appreciate the tips!

[KNeal]

I would like to add just to more suggestions to all the really great ones that are on this string.

I've had really good fortune of having conversations with Jon Lugbill, Davey Hearn, our own Dave Miller (Dave M.), and many other c-boaters that I have met though this board (and in spite of all the good advice, I still paddle pretty lame at times ). My two suggestions are to:

- put your body weight on the paddle during the forward stroke and not your knees. The goal is to keep the bow of the boat from bobbing or pearling. There have been different suggestions on how to accomplish this, but one that helps me is to push down on the handle with the top hand as you place the blade in the water and try to physically lift the knees. This is an exaggerated explanation, but I picked this tip up (I think) from Scott W.'s Concordia website.

- keep your arms in a fairly straight and fixed position as you pull through the forward stroke. This method is preached to c-boat slalom racers and I have heard a whole lot about it (still working on making it better for me). The arms are never locked straight, just held in a fixed position as you drive the paddle on the pull. You'll use the large back muscles and should help facilitate the ever-elusive torso rotation. Using Alden's dragging technique can really help. I've even tied the stern of my slalom boat to the stern of another boat and played "tug-of-war"! Try pitting your ego against a kayaker and see just how hard you can actually paddle. The downside to this game is the c-boater can tend to rotate if the j-stroke is not used.

Have a great time applying all of this information.

KNeal

[Bob P]

I keep the bow from bobbing by starting the catch with the blade at a slight forward angle that pushes the water down. My upper hand is close to my head. That way, the power starts by pulling with the bottom hand and pushing with the upper one.