C-Forum

And I dont think the probe should be on the list of frankie boats I THINK he started the design and darrel finished and I dont Think frankie even liked the design (it was in the falling out period between the two) Dont bash me this is just what I have heard and read and heard

Look at the popularity of the Ocoee. This is a design that needs to be kept in production. I don't know what the status of Bell is, but it would be great if Esquif or Mohawk took over the mold if Bell or the company that buys Bell stops producing it.

ORC industries, which owns Bell Canoe Works, is still trying to sell it. Presumably, Bell acquired the rights to make Ocoees from Dagger and I doubt ORC will release that right as long as they are trying to sell Bell.

In addition to the Ocoee, Prodigy, and Prodigy X whitewater boats, Bell had some great solo and tandem flat water designs and many hope to see those back on the market.

It might be good for everyone if the Ocoee mould disappears for a bit. There are a lot of newer designs out there by companies that are working hard (or at least working) to design new ww boats. A lot of people just default to the Ocoee because "everyone knows the Ocoee is a great boat" when there are likely better options out there.... Just playing devils advocate here.

Well, also playing devil's advocate here, just because a design is more recent doesn't mean it's better. And I don't say this as an Ocoee paddler. I just have a lot of respect for that design and feel a sense of loss anytime we lose one of the classic great designs. But I also believe in supporting companies that come out with new designs when the designs merit it. Which is why I like many on this forum have a garage full of boats.

pblanc wrote:ORC industries, which owns Bell Canoe Works, is still trying to sell it.

$2M is the price tag I heard through the grapevine...

Also an Ocoee paddler. Not my "go to" boat though.

If a new design is truly better, it will show through sales and the rep the boat gets online and on the water.

I bet Esquif sold a lot more L'Edges this year than they sold Detonators or Zooms. A solid design that fills a consumer need gap won't need assistance, it will sell on its own.

And for the record, between the L'Edge, Option, Ion, and the Wenonah boat, it's been a pretty dam good year for new designs. I'm glad that (from my armchair view) it looks like consumers rewarded the companies that took a bit of a risk. I saw a ton of L'Edges and Options this year. Hopefully other companies will see this and be willing to roll the dice.

That maybe true but I think that there is a lot to be said for inertia.


The canoe market is pretty small... I bet the "need gap" would have to be pretty big to justify the design and production of a new boat.

Canoeing will always be a niche market, but I think it is expanding. 200 L'Edges is 170-200K before expenses, so it's not just chump change. No one's making out like a bandit, but it doesn't have to be the, well I sold just enough boats to pay the electricity bill.

The passion we share drives the market, and as long as we continue to progress and bring new people to share this passion, that market will always be there. It's pretty telling that this solid year of expansion occurred during the worst recession that a lot of us have lived through.

What was the point of all this? Oh yeah, I like the Viper.

My 3 slightly jaded choices:

The Edge Series - While it may have not been the most or hottest of slalom canoe, nor was it the first short river runner, and even though introduced quite a number of years after the HD-1 ... it was one of the first high performance canoes to be bombed down steep creeks with such regularity. Perhaps it wasn't that 'The Edge' (as it's called) was so user friendly, as much as experienced boaters found them so much fun to paddle anywhere. Team Edge ruled, and everyone liked it when they rolled into town. And even the top decked boaters - would go, "Oh Wow'. You need to remember up until then, most of the real serious guys (the masses) were in Whitesell's and Sunburst II's. And once they proved to be Grand Canyon and Gauley worthy as well.... there was a surprising number paddled, considering they were glass (composite).

The Viper Series - or more importantly the Viper 11. This was a special time for open canoers, as short OC1's started to become more generally accepted. With the exception of the Team-D guys, everyone around these parts had to have one. Yes - Dagger sold some pretty good canoes. But the steepest, and biggest of water guys - those I knew were everywhere in these. They were the video stars of their time. Which was the reason Dagger later hooked up with Frankie to do the Ocoee. Which on a side note, if they had introduced it (the Ocoee) with those edges on the original stripper. It might possibly be the best thing still going. However they wouldn't have been near as popular as S.Scarbrough well knew.

The Spanish Fly - still the everything boat. For when you want to play your way down anything, and won't settle for second best. I can't attest to the Esquif boats, but those Pyranha hulls are still strong after all these years. (Note: Yes - I was on Team-Ugly Fish) And did I say... edges ?


(honorable mention)

Skeeter - This was the one that brought HDPE to the open boat world. Corrin had just shocked the world with the Fury. Up to that point, people had always said (especially Perception) you couldn't do sharp edges in plastic. Boy were they wrong !!! One look - just one, I was there. I looked over at Frankie, and he looked at me... and then Homie was all over it.

As said - Probe Series - not a Frankie Design

The Home(e) - looks great, and I'm sure it's just that; however they were never really marketed in this country. And it's not the best choice of material to be landing on rocks - it's like Twintex. I know of one, and they will not part, nor even paddle it.

philcanoe wrote: As said - Probe Series - not a Frankie Design

please elaborate Phil... I recall David talking about Frankie and that boat a l-o-n-g time ago (during one of those nights) but it's all pretty fuzzy now.

Let's just say, there was some bad blood with old-previous owners.

• water long gone under the bridge

• ((and l like the current Mohawk Boys))

Craig Smerda wrote:

pblanc wrote:ORC industries, which owns Bell Canoe Works, is still trying to sell it.

$2M is the price tag I heard through the grapevine...

Sounds crazy - how many years are design rights?

And there was a considerable number of years, before they gained the mold.

What does that $2M include? rights to (all of the Bell) designs *and* molds, inventory, other hardware and the name? the whole kit and canoodle? Maybe $2M doesn't sound bad.